you hit the nail 
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Being stared at gets old fast. I have resting Slavic bitch face and I never figured out how to fix it. I’m also a pervert magnet regardless of what country I’m in, so that’s fun.
Never try to fix or help a man along, unless you grew up with him. It doesn’t work, he has to do it on his own. Ask me how I know!
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Thanks everyone for your enlightening views on this topic; it’s so interesting!
This, this, really. It should have dawned on me pretty fast, but I really only felt this way when I attended in-person events…Thank you for articulating this!
Oh yeah, I was wondering what happens if you are a hako-oshi? (liking everyone in the band I think? please please correct me if I’m wrong) Is that just kind of a step before developing an honmei for some? Or is it healthier/worse than having just an honmei in that band?
And I wonder, too, if you have honmei in a fairly established band with little to fewer/more exclusive events, would that host-client relationship evolve? It could be something more subtle, perhaps, or how does it evolve, in everyone’s opinion?
I’m sorry if my questions are phrased weirdly or a bit obvious. It’s midnight here 
but I am curious!
Honestly the whole para social thing weirds me out like they’re just normal dudes who make good music but I guess that happens when you combine idol culture with pretty guys lol.
Having been to overseas lives only, I do wish it was easier to talk to other fans but I also feel awkward being one of the few male fans who’s into both metal and V-Kei. But overall I do like that bands like Jiluka are trying to break into the overseas metalcore scene while also not ditching the V-Kei aesthetic or label. Helps them open up to a wider audience like Dir En Grey did many eons ago before I was conscious tho.
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Agreed, it’s weird and unhealthy. A lot of lonely people out there. The internet is not helping matters. I think we get shielded from a lot of this when going to concerts in other countries. Not to say other countries don’t have their own problems, but this specific problem is something I’ve never seen or had to deal with at a show or interacting with non-Japanese fans. Are there some western fans who have this problem? A few, I’m sure. But I think there is huge social pressure in our cultures to not do this, so they’re keeping a lid on it.
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We’ll see that over the long turn, DeG didn’t ditch them right away either.
Although I would say it should be possible for bands to tour and keep aesthetics up.
I don’t see how it’s parasocial tho it’s not like kpop or when bands promote overseas and you see them that ONE time in a year. Bands (not just vkei) can have 2-10 shows per month and you become a regular to the point they do remember you. It can be bad enough where other bands know you as that persons fan. Though that being said a lot of Japanese fans don’t have main character vibes and accept that relationship of being a fan because for the most part we’re there for the music.
It kind of becomes as normal as going to the gym or going to the same coffee shop multiple times a week.
Not a dude but I’m into metal and V-kei.
I lean towards my metal side but one of the most awkward things I had to learn in the vkei world is that I am a woman and if I’m trying to get a 2-shot I gotta do some cute couple like pose 
Where as the metal world it’s just a quick “hey can we take a pic?” kind of thing.
I’m reluctant to get into the honmei convo since it’s kind of hard to understand if you’re not in the scene (not a jab at international fans, this would be the same if you lived in rural Japan) and I don’t want this to turn into vkeitwt “what’s a bangya” quality convo. Read @GreatNorthernVK thread and you can see how she kinda has a honmei relationship developing 
You can like every member in a band. I saw Xaa Xaa yesterday and girls were lining up to take pictures with all 4 guys.
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Asked my japanese friend, and she said Honmei means that this band member is your number 1, your favourite. That’s it
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Except it’s not “that’s it” in terms of Vkei. Is your Japanese friend in the scene though? I say this because I have friends that are into Johnny’s and the same word can have different meanings depending on the scene.
Like by the word alone bangya just means a girl that likes visual kei bands. But Dadaroma’s “I’m not a bangya” playfully gave insight on what bangyas are. Called me out at the Little Hearts bag comment
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Yeah, there’s definitely an implication regarding the word bangya that someone not only likes visual Kei bands, but participates in aspects of the fan culture like having a honmei/oshis, attending lives for their favourites regularly, prioritizes one band over all others, etc.
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yeah she is a bangya, that’s why I asked her.
This is totally understandable, thank you so much for your response! and yes, agree that there are nuances and concepts that perhaps is best understood when in the scene, in the flesh. I experienced brief glimpses, but I could tell there was much I didn’t know, and I still have so much to learn from all. It’s really something that has to be experienced!
I’ll have a closer read at the thread too 
thanks again!
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Alright so I have seen some stuff recently on Twitter that I am absolutely baffled by. People were discussing what made them stop liking a band or a band memeber and I saw multiple answers to the effect of “my favourite ignored me at an event” and “they weren’t interactive enough”. I did not save the tweets nor do I really want to point out anyone in particular so you’ll just have to take my word for it unfortunately. Everyone is of course free to start or stop supporting a band for whatever reason but this is still a bit insane to me.
Here we were discussing earlier the parasocial relationships in the scene but until I read those comments I genuinely thought they were kinda side-effects of blurring the boundaries between an artist and a fan and not… whatever this is. To me those comments genuinely sound more like something one would say about a host club than a band. If the music means so little to you that the members not giving you special attention is enough to make you drop it, why do you even crave that special attention in the first place? Like, I can understand being vulnerable to bandmen encouraging parasocial relationships as a fan but how does it even work if you are not already a fan of the band?
I feel like I should add that I don’t want to come off like I think myself better than them here, if anything I am scared that it could happen to anyone. It also makes it seem even more like you cannot succeed in vkei without also selling host-like services. Which in turn will affect what kind of people are willing to get involved and who the fans are. I don’t generally like pedaling the “vkei is dead/dying” discourse but this kind of makes me genuinely worry about the scene. If the parasocial relationships start to outweight the importance of the music, what is there to stop vkei from essentially turning into a themed host-club?
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This also keeps me wondering. I also like some members more than others and I do like having some attractiv guys doing the music. But if the music plays such a small role for some fans why not go directly to a host and let him pretend he’s in a band or something.
I wouldn’t worry to much about this. This is a problem for some smaller bands for sure but I think if they are good enough music wise they will get popular enough with people who do care for the music.
This kind of gya does exist but I would not over estimate they amount and effect. Well, at least that is what I hope 
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Exactly! Much smaller risk of the guy suddenly ignoring you too. I guess it can be jarring if you have gotten used to special attention to such an extent that you expect it every time. Which I suppose is a little the band’s fault too for feeding into the parasociality too much but damn. I cannot imagine being so into a band that I would go to their events and yet care so little about the music that I would drop them because they did not acknowledge my presense somehow.
I do hope you are right 
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That is basically it, as far as I can tell. It can feel empowering in a way for these guys to notice you in particular and show signs that they remember you and feel like you’re forming a bond only for them to step back once you’ve become a regular. It really takes you out of the fantasy the first time it clearly happens.
I guess for some, that feeling is too jarring to continue going. But honestly, most bandmen will probably step back with fans in due time unless they are getting paid via 2shot sessions (or, if working for a less scrupulous company, via mitsu). So if that is indeed the case, they probably won’t last long in the in person VK scene.
Now, when this process starts happening, the band might not necessarily be your favourite band of all time, or that guy who rizzes you up may not be even in your top 10 bandmen from your netogya days. Sure, you probably need to have some liking for the band’s music to go see them enough times for this bond to start forming organically.
But due to band popularity often being correlated with inaccessibility, chances are your all time favourite is not going to be available for this kind of “relationship” so bangya are typically forming these bonds with dominor band guys who may have to hop from band to band. You may hypothetically get a situation where a fan is coming to a band’s shows literally only because their dude is the support guitarist, even if she doesn’t like that band’s music at all.
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I saw those twitter posts too and I’ve been wondering about this since I started off and am still in the metalcore scene. Metalcore fandom goes - no real clear line between people on stage and being a fan. Often times the members of other bands will be in the crowd with you watching other bands. A lot of the bands are so close that if a member is sick another member from another band will step up and do support.
I’ve been to a lot of joint events where you could drink and talk with the bandmen- no payment required. No weird fake romantic relationship that’s supposed to develop, you’re just people. They’ll add you on social media, repost your posts, like your posts, and you kinda just become a part of the scene. They respond to DMs and even encourage DMs. Most fans are like the band members, they follow every other band. There is no “one band that I’m here for” kinda expectation. You will still get asked who your favorite band is when you pay for your drink fee so they can get a cut.
Now onto visual kei:
There’s larger Visual Kei bands that are just too big to form those kinds of relationships like Kamijo or something.
Then you get into the medium popular Vkei bands that do instore events like offering 2-shots or time alone with a member if you buy a certain amount of CDs and then that host-client relationship develops. I don’t want to say “parasocial,” the bandmen know who you are and it’s in their best interest to remember your name and details about you to keep you as a customer. So does it sound host boy ish? It’s because for some bands it is what it is, IT IS some form of a host boy relationship. You can’t really criticize a scene that markets themselves as such. Like I prefer to have autographed CDs. Some bands only offer 2-shots
Dominor bands are a whole other story since wild west can happen there. I don’t really go to dominor bands tho even if the music is really good (they’ll be on my playlist tho) because some bands really blur the host boy relationship and actually even create more expensive rules to be alone with a member like buy 10 cheki for a 2-shot or something. Not saying for me that’s too much (no i’m not buying 10 cheki), it’s that you can often tell who in the crowd really buys into all of that and compared to metalcore concerts where you’re all friends, in person seeing these crowds can be jarring. You’ll have fans that feel they are, and probably are the favorite and be mean to other girls.
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At this point i’m blabbering but Im at these concerts alone usually so I just observe. Everytime I went to see Arlequin their fans seemed to genuinely be their fans. Like at metalcore concerts no one is forcing us to buy merch for a 2-shot or something, we all rush to the merch booth because we like the band, the vibe, and the music.
A lot of times with visual kei bands they’ll hole themselves in the livehouse before the concert and after the concert so no fans can interact with them. I was surprised one time I saw Arlequin at a metalcore concert they actually just were casually walking around.
I wouldn’t say it’s gya being crazy a lot of times it originates from the bandmen too. They’ll go out of their way to make you feel special and once they lock you in as @GreatNorthernVK says, you’ve been fanzoned. They’ll find more fans and you either just leave because now you feel stupid and don’t want to compete with other girls or you stay and compete with other girls.
Yes you can be there for the music but sometimes the bandmen has made it so awkward that it can be hard to enjoy live shows from that point on. Some bandmen encourage their fans to fight over them. I’m just a foreigner and I’ve lived in Japan for 7 years but (correct me if I’m wrong) it seems like Japan kinda creates the culture for women to fight over guys.
So back to us all being friends in the metalcore world and buying merch to show our love and appreciation - metalcore members will remember you, there isn’t some weird shift where they act like they don’t know you anymore once you’ve come to enough shows, actually that sounds kinda weird.
I’ve seen other beasts created in the vkei world: the fan that got attention and feels they’re above normal people things like merch, chekis, & 2-shots or whatever…stuff that supports the band. For one band I’ve seen, there will be a group of girls hiding in the bathroom to be the last people to leave the venue by even arguing with the venue & band staff - now to me that’s beyond batshit and not the norm but that’s how wild a little attention can go and some fans fight to be number one.
They won’t buy merch, do the outstore events, and really just hang around to hang around so when you see bands posting announcements about banning fans it’s over stuff like that. You don’t really see or believe the nonsense until you see it in person. Also - its the weird world of Vkei 
Now not saying I do any of this - this is just from what I’ve seen. There’s a lot of older gya that are married with kids and ultimately go because they like the music and have a favorite. But that being said I could understand how awkward it must feel to go from being acknowledged to acting like you’re not there because the metalcore scene doesn’t switch back like that.
These guys don’t go from remembering you to getting amnesia - that is kinda hurtful. You see yourself get replaced by a new shinier fan and how do you not feel hurt? There’s three metalcore bands I follow a lot and no weird vkei host/client relationship is there but I’d feel weird if they acted like they never seen me before suddenly.
Also a lot of overseas fans tend to not think just how often these bands are performing. I saw the same band six days in a row this month. I’m seeing them three more times this month, I could boost it to five more if I do the instores This isn’t the one or two times a year you get to see Taylor Swift or Jiluka (overseas) kinda deal. Because that does sound silly to only see a band once every 6 months and be upset they ignored you.
Once again this is not the norm - you won’t see this at a Kamijo concert but it’s usually the mid-tier and lower vkei bands where you see this at.
In all maybe it’s better to stop seeing a band before becoming one of those crazy fans that fights band and venue staff to hide in the bathroom to ambush bandmen later for one on one attention 
Yes bathroom girls, I hope you’re reading this.
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I am pretty sure you either are that kind of person or you are not. You don’t catch crazy from getting bandomen attention.
Also probably this is more common in younger fans and most will hopefully grow out of this. My reason for thinking this is, that I have seen people who where like this oversea as well 15 years ago. And when I was younger I also did stuff that makes me feel embarrsed now. Nothing bstshit crazy lol.
It wasn’t that “regular” overseas, probably because the hostish culture of japanese vk likely attracts more of this people. But there is also crazy people in k-pop or anime fandom. People put glas into candy and gave it to an artist at a con because they hated what characters they shipped. Young girls went nuts about the Beatles and the Backstreet Boys and BTS…
I understand that this can be annoying as fan who just wants to enjoy the music and especially if you are used to a diffrent scene but I guess there is not much else you can do than enjoy yourself, avoid bathroom girls and hope the scene finds better means to make money… maybe with more fans like you coming. Don’t leave the good music to bathroom girls! 
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Here’s a thought this thread and others are lately bringing me to: there’s a similar reasoning to why i prefer vkei to metalcore, and it’s the same as why i Catholicism to other Christianities (wait i can explain)
I shoot wedding videos as part of my main income as a photo/videographer, so i’m seeing more weddings per year than most people do their whole life. People outside Catholicism usually complain about how long, drawn out, and ritualistic the mass is.
But i shot a Catholic wedding recently, one so formal all the music was in Latin - and i was locked in, enjoying the aesthetic the whole time. I don’t participate in religion myself, but the sounds, the movements, the candles were all choreographed and performed with intention. By contrast, nothing against other Christian weddings, but i always cringe anytime the pastor says something to the effect of “alright, i know you’re excited to get to the food so i’ll wrap this part up quick!”
To myself i think, “at least pretend like you and the people here want to be here; we’re here after all…”
Nothing personally against the people involved, but i don’t love the winks and nods to the audience - does it make sense to call it ‘fourth wall breaking’ if we’re all there IRL?
I’m sure if you’ve read that you can already tell where i’m going w/ the second half -
I went to see Boris recently, and was every bit as moved and filled with life as when i’ve been able to see a vkei show. (Same with Deafheaven, it’s not like a Japanese thing.) Both those bands, ofc they’re not the only ones, keep the aesthetic and the atmosphere of the music very high, paramount, and MCs are sparse, not focused on jokes.
To me personally, there’s something about jokes in the MC that just - it doesn’t kill the show for me, but it de-elevates it; my enjoyment and my sense of having stepped outside my daily world are brought back to earth.
I don’t think i’m delusional; for one i’m a straight guy who has zero interest of that sort in bandmen. I don’t even think i hold musicians off-stage on any sort of high pedestal, except in terms of their musicianship and artistic expression.
But there is definitely some transcendent sense to the full showmanship, arts-above-the-human-experience sort of lives that vkei bands and others like Boris and Deafheaven put on. I’ve been to plenty of metal, metalcore, rock, punk shows that were like oh yeah, this is nice, it’s good music, i’m having a good time. But i still feel like “me”, still acutely aware of work, bills, mundane stressors etc.
It’s just me and my personal preferences i’m talking about here, but a band performing on that level and in that way of allowing me to play the game, get lost, and exist outside my world for a bit - that’s so much more valuable to me.
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