The bluray is pretty insane. The setlist is a bit lacking tbh, but the energy and general madness is through the roof. Hardly seen any live releases by bands even close, sheeeeesh. Haha.
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I remembered immediately of Utafumi’s new recording in TIW. While the original single version was okay, in the album it became an insanely fun song. You can hear they had enjoyed recording this. it’s kinda rough, but it only ands charm to a song like that
Edit: just saw you kinda said the same thing in the end lol. just proves your point
Something I forgot to point out was that the gang vocals in Zan are actually louder than Kyo himself. Indefensible (imho).
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True, and that’s a very weird decision on their part
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Gonna push back on this point just a bit: A good drummer CAN do this, but it isn’t likely. Even the best drummers will have a few hits flam that shouldn’t, will have a few hits that are juuuust off groove enough to feel wrong, will have a few hits that are weak, etc… Even at their most rehearsed, it usually requires a few full takes and some punch-ins to have enough workable material. Then things need to be edited down to final comps. And I’m not even accounting for time necessary in the studio to set up drums and microphones, do test recordings to make sure you’re getting the tones you want, adjust mics as necessary, more test recordings, changing out heads, changing out shells, trying different cymbals, and so on and so forth
THAT SAID - if things were less clean, less “modern” and crisp sounding, things like that would be a lot less noticeable. A kick flamming against a snare is a lot more audible when that kick is really compressed and the ‘tic’ sound is accentuated, vs. if that kick is softer and warmer and buried a bit more under the bass guitar
Editing multitrack drums is an insanely time-consuming process, and programming even an album’s worth of drums can easily take less time than tracking drums once we account for everyyything else involved in recording a live drum kit. Even Meshuggah’s Thomas Haake opted to program all the drums for Catch-33 rather than record the parts
I agree with you in general though, I would always PREFER drums to be as live as possible. Not that I’m against samples (I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it a million more - samples are just tools and can be used in good ways, even in conjunction with a live kit!!), but yeah the way they’re used on DEG productions absolutely sucks the life out of Shinya’s parts. I actually think he DOES track his drums for real, but then they entirely replace the shells with one-shot samples, giving us that horrid machine-gun effect on snare rolls and tom fills
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I like the og versions the best but I will say the new zan is better than the first remake of zan. There is something special about the og ones that gets my attention. They put in an atmosphere similar to the way black metal does.If I heard this versions first,I don’t think I would be that interested in the band. They are not bad and may be technically better but I don’t get the same feeling.
Is Shinya being a 'bad drummer’s one of the hottest takes in here recently? Does the person have a point?
Does the person have a point?
No.
Everything is pointless.
Shinya isn’t a bad drummer. He’s fine. What’s bad is the way he records his parts. He seems to sample himself and then program those beats, meticulously quantising them to a grid. This surgical approach sucks the energy, dynamics, and vitality out of music that desperately needs those aspects to feel alive.
After spending some time with the single, I’m not quite so cartoonishly frustrated with it now. The exception is that the vocals in Zan being quieter than the other two remakes is a real deal-breaker for me personally. It’s jarring to the extent that it kills the flow of the single. Of the three versions of the song, I’d rate this one dead last.
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Does anyone actually have any evidence that the drums are programmed??
Many people are confused by 2 differents things : programming a drums ( with MIDI ), in this case everything is not played by a real drummer. The drums can also by recorded on an electronic drums to get MIDI. But I guess that is another thing.
Or, the use of a " trigger ", which means they still record a real drums (photos of studios can partially prove) but replace most often Kick and snare. Sometimes toms.
Shinya is definitely using trigger. There will be no proof, it’s your ear. But it’s not Shinya who do
It, it’s the mixing engineer. The band still approve this choice.
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He definitely uses triggers, yes. That’s what causes the notes to feel unnatural (as they’re exactly the same sample every time). But it also feels quantised, so either he’s an absolute machine or his performance is snapped to a beat in post.
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Maybe Shinya is an cyborg, robocop style
Indeed, i didn’t mention this point but probably it’s quantized to death… It’s really something that’s most producer.mixing engineer tend to overdo nowadays. It should be done with taste.
In my opinion, to make the drums perfectly to the grid is the lazy choice. I really don’t think during GAUZE and this era they quantized his drums, so he doesnt need any quantized. Dir en grey is the kind of band that needs everything raw (as much as possible). It’s funny because many fans understand more Dir en grey than Dir en grey themselves.
@foccius yes, but he was not during the begin of Dir en grey, don’t you think ?
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I’ve seen photos from his live kits where there aren’t any mics on the toms and snare, just trigger modules. That’s enough proof for me
My ear does definitely tell me this as well though. There’s even been a few times where I thought I could pick out a specific kick sample, or at least one made to sound very much like one from the base Steven Slate Drums library lmao
It’s sort of pointless to call Shinya out for quantizing and sample replacing when that’s been a common practice for years now and is more or less the standard, especially in more extreme music. But it’s been happening on DEG recordings since at least Dum Spiro Spero.
Shinya’s real problem is he seems like he’s never fully committed to the heavier side of DEG’s music. When Schadenfreude goes into the chorus and Shinya – once again – leans on that simple “bum tap bum tap” drum pattern, it feels tired. It’s boring. It isn’t creative. Why do you even have double kick drums, bro?
So, no, Shinya isn’t a bad drummer at all, he’s just not a great metal drummer.
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In some songs it works in their favor since it doesn’t sound like what every other metal band does, but in a few I’ve felt he could have done something to speed it up or switch it up more. The endless double bass that’s typical of the genres they’re taking inspiration from gets just as tiring as the bum tap bum tap stuff but at least Diru’s the only ultra-heavy band going bum tap bum tap whereas there’s a million ultra heavy bands going FRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
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I think my frustration is mostly with how the simplified patterns get used more as time goes on. I mean in stuff like Vinushka, Reiketsu Nariseba, Diabolos, and Different Sense, Shinya was at least breaking things up with doubles or triplets. That doesn’t seem as common anymore.
My ear is NO where as trained to recognize on records if Shinya is quantizing or sample replacing. And probably never will be…
But I think the true deterrent will be if he struggles to play these songs songs live, which i doubt. They seem fairly “simple” compared to DSS. Hell, Shinya still can’t play a majority of those DSS songs without sounding sloppy or empty at some points. Ima give him credit because since then he’s not overdoing it in the recording where he can’t replicate live.
The songs he seems to struggle are those from Uroboros. I recall some comments from him saying he doesn’t enjoy playing them very much, and dreads having to relearn how to play them when there is an concept tour
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Haha that’s hilarious.