@rena and @ezra Not to veer too far off-topic but from what I have seen it is somewhat of a debate whether or not a real person can queerbait or not. In fandom circles at least it originally referred to media hinting at queerness or a queer relationship but then never making it explicit. This was often a conscious choice by the showrunners in order to gain a very enthusiastic fanbase that would generate fandom content and promote the show but they never had any intention of actually delivering anything that would risk putting off the mainstream audience.
Later some people started accusing celebrities like Harry Styles for queerbaiting, because he styled and presented himself in ways that were very explicitly queer but never adopted a definitive queer label for himself. Queer fans who had looked up to him started feeling like he was adopting queerness as an aesthetic to appeal to fans without actually representing them. But this use of queerbaiting has always been somewhat controversial because while it is possible that some public figure would essentially do the real-person equivalent of queerbaiting, there is really no way to tell. And if we accept that a real person can be accused of queerbaiting, we create a situation where no one can exist in public as visibly queer unless they come out. Which also further reinforces the heteronormative boundaries of self-expression, which is really not something we want to do.
To then try and bring this back to the topic at hand, I feel like it is actually quite interesting to consider fanservice through this lens. Because the difference I described above boils down to whether or not the potential queerbaiting is scripted into a fictional story with the showrunners firmly holding the reins or a part of a real person’s self-expression. And fanservice can really be considered either. It is part of the show performed on stage and bandmen often more or less explicitly distinguish between themselves and their stage personas. But at the same time it is often pretty spontaneous and part of an artistic performance that might be more personal than just playing a character a certain way. Personally I suppose I would still consider fanservice more in the “real people self expression” category than “a scripted performance” category. Mostly because the queerness in the performance is usually not just baited but explicit. The “baiting” part only comes in when one starts to wonder whether the fanservice means the bandman is actually queer or not. And there we are clearly on the territory of the latter definition.
Apologies for another essay but this is such an interesting topic and I have very much enjoyed reading everyone’s contributions 
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Also Ruki, Kyo, Hyde… Ruki and Hyde are almost always in heels, Lime almost never is.
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Ruki is a whopping 1 cm taller than me 
he is 164 I’m 163
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Everybody in this topic:
People who skip this topic because it’s 900 posts deep and you think we’re flinging shit in here…you’re missing out! This is probably one of my favorite topics on the whole forum. I’m not biased or anything…
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I think Ruki is shorter, he looks very small) I can’t recall he’s ever mentioned his height, so the numbers are approximate, but he’s almost always in heels. Hyde definitely isn’t taller than 160 cm. Here Hyde is wearing simple thick soles, while Ruki has about a 6 cm heel.
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I guess the added dimension here is that there is a definite Fetishization of queer men happening here, while at the same time “penalizing” people for actually being openly gay.
Sure, fetishization of openly gay men can still happen in this scene, but it also tends to cut off mitsu opportunities and the section of gya who are supporting that specific member through 2shots and cheki orders in hopes of him noticing her. Cali≠Gari aren’t quite like that as a band, so nobody really cares if Ao is openly gay without appealing to the female audience.
I kind of joke around sometimes that this is the patron genre of male bisexuality because it seems like kind of a safe haven for guys who want to explore that part while still keeping themselves open to women.
The downside is that it can get messy for openly bi bandmen around other band guys that might be comfortable fooling around on stage with another straight guy, but not if they think the other guy might be into them for real? I’ve heard that some BL con cafes only hire straight men for this reason.
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Yeah this is definitely a thing unfortunately. I think this is also another division between the international fandom and the japanese one. The international fandom sees fanservice and wants to view it as queer reprensentation and is happy to find actually queer bandmen while most gya in Japan view it more as something to rile up their desire for the men involved and would be very dissappointed to find out it is anything more than that.
Yeah that is also kind of my point above. Vkei is a space in an otherwise very conservative society where people can experiment quite freely without too much scrutiny. Sure it is just part of the job for some but there certainly are those who are perhaps more into it than they expected. Queerness is not always or even most of the time straightforward (pun very much intended) and personally I am not a huge fan of the way the western world has put queerness into neat boxes and sold it back to us as prepackaged identities. I have both felt and seen the agony and uncertainty is causes to queer people to try and box themselves into those categories and in addition it also makes it harder to see queerness when it does not present itself as clear-cut identities. Is two men kissing only queer if the men involved are sexually attracted to eachother or at least to men in general? If that is a required element, how much and how specific attraction should there be and how do we judge the presense or lack of it from the outside?
This is also unfortunately very real. Homophobia is a very curious thing in the many ways it might present itself. At least Kamijo is built different in this regard 
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most gya in Japan view it more as something to rile up their desire for the men involved and would be very dissappointed to find out it is anything more than that.> Blockquote
I’m wondering if Japanese female fans see two men kissing the same way that a lot of straight men in the west see two women kissing. It sounds like the same thing to me… they’re seeing the action and putting themselves in the place of one of the people, still assuming that the men and women are straight.
Edit- sorry, I’m a newbie and didn’t quote you correctly!
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Verly likely yes. Look at all that BL stuff that is aimed at a mostly female audience. Big market in Japan.
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someday i will read all! As adult guy i dont have the time to just read and enjoy reading. 
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Not that it really matters… but Ruki, Hyde and Kyo are all under 160cm?
Pretty sure Kyo is slightly over at 161cm
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But damn thats really small, by the way this picture is pretty iconic 
(take into consideration hes probably wearing heels as well)
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Height I know for Ruki is 162 cm. If that’s the truth, who knows. He himself, most likely.
And 155 for Yomi.
Makes both of them taller than me.
Are vocalists heights now hot takes?
Going off of this magazine scan (source: a YouTube so sketchy evidence) Yomi is 158 so not quite that short. Though 155 and 158 are practically the same height anyway at least from above.
Ruki’s height is a bit more interesting to me whether he’s 162 or 164 does determine if he’s shorter or taller than me and admittedly I want the bragging rights of being taller
Hahaha, nope, that’s not practically the same (not even from above, is it). For me it’s a difference of 1 or 4 cm taller than me. xDD
Actually not.
I remember, when I got into the scene in the middle of the 2000’s it wasn’t that uncommon that this was mentioned as well as blood types and stuff. (And since I’m very good with figures things like this sometimes just stick with me.)
I’m not tall at all but from my POV 155 and 158 are practically the same. I imagine this line gets even more blurry for taller people
Wonder what fans got from knowing that. “I can save my honmei if he needs a blood transfusion” or the inverse “he can save ME if I need a blood transfusion”
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Blood types is the japanese version of astrology. So you know what kind of person they are from it. There are apparently 4 personality types
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