Here’s Toshiya playing guitar btw:
4 Likes
We’ve all seen Shinya play drums well enough. I think using VST drums was just the easiest way for him to produce a drum playthrough.
That said, he’s got very little technique which he compensates by writing interesting phrases. If you have to wonder if he’s truly compensating, just look at his kit.
1 Like
What you say about programming is very true ! It’s a very long process…
But how can we imagine one minute that Shinya cannot play his own songs… ? I mean there so many lives DVD. This guy can play for sure. And even on this video it definitely show that he play it well.
Recording drums is not so easy… you need a mic for each elements ( can be around 12 and he got a big drumset ), an interface can record so many mics, a good room ( acoustic treatment ), preamps for mics.
But we are talking about the drummer of Dir en grey, not a random. I was thinking budget is not a problem for them.
1 Like
Unraveling imo
2 Likes
I’m a weirdo. I would say the original Uroboros or Insulated World
5 Likes
vulgar.
2 Likes
For me probably Withering to Death or Arche
2 Likes
Not quite sure what you mean by “best”. Withering to death. definitely has their most ‘polished’ sound.
Liking an album’s production is incredibly subjective. For instance, someone may prefer something ultra glossy (Gauze, Wtd), others may prefer something expansive (Uroboros RE, DSS), while there are also those who want a more lo-fi raw approach (MOAB, Uroboros '08, TIW).
All opinions are valid. Because of this, there’s no correct answer here.
6 Likes
I like the production on six Ugly the most for some reason, even if Toshiya is kind of buried behind everyone else.
After that album there’s kind of a steady journey towards more flat and murky production that followed them all the way to Uroboros. It’s easy for me to just think that’s the way they wanted the music to sound.
This more “modern” style of production from DSS onwards usually leaves me wanting to hear the songs live instead.
They took a long time to get DSS to sound good live, as the album is densely layered and it’s not easy to pull that off with only five guys and not much in the way of backing track playback. Towards the end (Nippon Budokan etc) it sounds okay, but it’s still quite sparse compared to the lush studio recording.
TIW live is really the best way to hear the songs. I’ve warmed up to the studio album a lot, though.
2 Likes
Not album, but Hageshisa to’s single.
3 Likes
Yeah, you know what? The stuffed mixed by Jens Bogren is fantastic. He also did the bonus tracks on Insulated World
3 Likes
I hope it wasn’t him who wrecked Kigan (maybe Kaoru?).
On the other hand, 2018 Deeper Vileness and Wake sound awesome.
True, my bad.
my favs are Arche and DSS
Things I learned surfing this thread:
- Shinya is STILL bad at drums.
- DeG stans are still in civil rivalry.
- the best albums are still Macabre, Vulgar and Arche (judging from everyone’s takes).
- Oboro was largely disappointing.
3 Likes
I’m not calling Shinya bad at drums anymore, just stubborn.
I’m an audio engineer as well, nice to come across you!!
I don’t think the WHOLE sound is MIDI, because there’s still enough nuance in the cymbals. In my experience, cymbals are the HARDEST part of a kit to emulate with MIDI and samples - quick hits back to back wash out or sound too rigid. The quick hat triplets in this video sound… almost unnaturally clean, though still like it’s real (that said, they COULD just be very well programmed - but then why are the shells not done as well too??). It’s possible the hats are an overdub (there are some albums, like Sacrament by Lamb of God, where the shells get recorded as one pass, general cymbals are an overdub, hi-hat is another overdub, and ride cymbal/other special cymbals like splashes and Chinas are yet another overdub - VERY hard to pull off, but if the engineer can get the right performances out of the drummer it can help create a larger than life mix without dealing with cymbal bleed in your snare mic and stuff like that).
Those shell hits on the snare and toms are very clearly samples though, I’m 100% with you there. Listening back and hearing where he does multiple hits on the snare one after another, they’re all the same sample playing back every hit, which really takes me out of the video.
Based on all the recording videos of Shinya, as well as the fact that he’s been using triggers live for a number of years now (any of the MODE OF… tours, ARCHE Budokan, the two no-audience concerts they did during the pandemic… the snare rolls give it away for me), my guess is that Shinya records his live drum takes, and they capture the triggers from those takes as well (putting both microphones and trigger modules on all of the shells). Then after the master edit for the drums is complete, they can easily bring in samples to place over the snare, kick, and toms.
1 Like
I was surprised to read this and you’re right, Jens did the mixes for Kigan, Deeper Vileness, and Wake on the bonus CD! I guess Koji did the live tracks.
I’m kind of surprised though. Since they went with Dan Lancaster to mix the main album, I’d thought that meant they were moving away from working with Jens, but I guess they (or the label) still want his sound for some stuff.
Hi all, was a huge DEG fan from around 2005/6 (?!) up until Uroboros then kinda drifted off. Did see them live twice in London (and I think Leeds?) and still check in now and again but have started listening to them quite a bit again! Can anyone recommend the best newer songs to get started with? (When I say newer could literally be anything since Uroboros haha). I’m definitely more into the lighter songs than the super heavy stuff - fav album is probably Vulgar.
3 Likes