Do you guys think vkei will ever become mainstream?

Japanese Music
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Yeah, he was like “hurr I have a Vietnamese asian GF”, I know asians trust me bro. Cringe…

Anyways, I do agree VK/jrock is irrelevant, on life support, but I think people are too critical saying it’s the visuals and not the state of rock music being absolutely dead in the mainstream (I think you mentioned it above). Especially, VK is almost 99% rock based. I’ve seen TikTok, there is a growing preference for “pretty boys”. I’ve seen zoomer “alt” fashion and they all look like it came from VK. I think it’s being almost purely rock based that’s holding VK back, not the visuals tbh.

Get some rap based VK like xxtripxx or Choke and with some government funding for marketing, I think it’d take off. Now if this is the future we want, idk.

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83

When that video was released there were a lot of people who were pissed with it. And tbh i still don’t like it, but yeah he got a point, he got a point in that way that a lot of people see exactly that from the outside.

I would like also to note down that he didn’t wanted to make any video about Japanese Metal because he knew well that fans would get angry at him. That’s also why it’s uploaded on his second channel, not his main

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By the way i think you’re basically you’re not off. But it would depend a lot on the person who talks about it.
I am pretty sure that Nik Nocturnal reacting to Prompts gave them a boost in popularity.
But none of that would be enough to reach actually the mainstream.

Why would their government fund anything as problematic as the VK scene?
Also meanwhile their own music market is still accounted as the second biggest in the world.

Also, if you remove the Rock from a VK band and make them more Pop… that screams alternative idol to me

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84

I think it’s both and neither at the same time, but you are on to something. I sincerely believe the average person just does not engage with music on more than a superficial level. I also believe that the composition and manufacturing of pop hits has gotten simpler over the last few decades; we don’t even do key changes anymore because listeners need to be grabbed within the first minute, no one waits until the end of the song for the vocalist to show their true range or for the energy to climax. Sure, the key change reached a point where it became borderline cliche, but nothing substantial has replaced it in it’s absence. Whatever happens in the mainstream percolates down, and expectations come first.

This is why I think rock/metal/a lot of scenes have zero time in the limelight. Listeners are demanding simpler tunes, a lack of key changes, more rhythm and texture, an injection of energy from frame one, etc. Visual kei does not provide that, full stop. No one cares about a melody in A Lydian, or I-iv-V-vi, and even flashy solos don’t hit like they used to. Ironically, what people do care about is hearing something they’ve never heard before, so if you can somehow get around the death grip of expectations modern music has on the average person then the floor really opens up.

But that’s hard to do when the death grip comes from the same hand you want the firm handshake of approval from.

It’s what I’ve experienced at least. Take any rock song with a bitchin’ riff and play back to the MP3 to some virgin ears, and they may or may not pick up on what you’re putting down. Isolate the guitar riff by itself and play only that back on a real instrument, and the fusion of sound and sight (watching your fingers fly all over the neck) engages people more deeply. I don’t know how many times I’ve played back a visual kei riff and people are like “wow, that shit is bonkers are you gonna record it?” and I don’t say anything because…well yeah, even if I told you the song and the artist you’ll forget by the time you walk out. :person_shrugging:

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85

Personally I don’t like Finn McKenty for his snobbish attitude. I watched a few vids and yeah sometimes he brings up interesting points about certain happenings in pop culture… but most of the time this guy seems to be forcefully contrarian for the sake of getting that sweet engagement in the yt comment section and his social media pages. Also I do not expect a guy to really “get” VK and japanese music in general, considering how often his takes on music scenes and subcultures he isn’t a part of are flat out wrong. This is the man who calls his main “Punkrock MBA”, but barely covers any actual non-core Punk and referred to Marylin Manson and My Chemical Romance as “Goth”.

Whang! did actually do a much better video, even if it is still a bit making fun of VK, but you notice that he was (or still is, he loves Diru) totally into it, so it is more self deprecating humour.

Yet I don’t see that any of the groups in this vid exploded in popularity (I think). The Malice Mizer worship seems to stem from Tik Tok and also seems fairly contained there.

Also as many here have said, Metal and Hardrock aren’t exactly the most mass-compatible genres. There were short time periods where they were mainstream, but that ship has long sailed. Even Nu-Metal’s success story is now almost two decades over. Guitar music tried to come back ever so often, see Mall Emo and the Indie Rock revival of the mid 00s, but it didn’t last long or stick. Nowadays it’s all about repetitive, simple beats, that’s why Hip-Hop and rap and associated musical styles are in. Not saying it’s bad, but it’s different. Groups like Manneskin are now the exception, not the norm.

Interestingly non-Rock scenes have appropriated the aesthetics, looks and attitudes of “edgy” rock subcultures. I recently stumbled upon the whole Hyperpop scene, that stuff is a s far removed from any Rock and Alternative as can be, but looks and fashion wise they would fit right in with previous rock based scenes like Punk, Grunge and Glam:

It’s easy to dismiss this as tumblr genderspecial-core (and it is, lol), but that’s the kind of shit kids these days are into. And while it’s not breaking-the-records mainstream famous, hyperpop does influence current mainstream pop and hip-hop. I don’t want to say this is this generation’s Visual kei or Punk, but a lot of people that I see that look “Alternative” or even VK do listen to this music (and not VK or Punk, they probably don’t even know what the former is).

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“Electra’s father is Paul Gomberg, known as “the Rockstar Realtor” in Houston, originally from Beverly Hills. Their mother is artist and jewelry designer Paula Fridkin.”

you either get government grants to support music industry (this is how british invasion emerged back in the day), otherwise (trigger warning!!!) it’s stripping and dominatrix-leaning sex work to pay your bills if your father isn’t moving mansions for 40 years (I highly recommend looking up her father for anyone who thought Yoshiki’s social media antics were on the cringey side, you really haven’t seen true cringe yet.) VK survives through host and bar jobs.

it’s his attitude + COD voice chat vernacular formed at 15 and going nowhere from that point that were KILLING me through his entire video on japanese music… I went ahead with the comments a bit later on, and there were some people checking him on his shit, I’m glad the MM gang in particular showed up.

87

I see where you’re getting at. I’ve noticed 0.1g no Gosan arguably relatively gets a lot of attendees and views on concerts and Youtube compared to most VK bands. Their music can be described as J-Pop with a little bit of guitars mixed but, but is mostly synth heavy, quite simplier music. Or Zigzag, sounds like your typical anime Jrock. I can see why it’s relatively popular, but I can imagine it getting 0 respect amongst metalheads.

Then there are bands that find appeal in metalheads, like Deviloof, but I’d think, they’d be more popular with western metalheads if they just ditch the visuals. I’ve read the foreign comments on their videos, like 80% were praising the pure heaviness, nothing really about how cool they look, (mostly, “is that guitarist a guy??!?, no way??”, “wasn’t what I was expecting, I thought they’re gonna sound like Black Veil Bridge lol”.).

But from the responses here, it looks like rock/guitars and flamboyant visuals are core to VK’s identity. It ain’t VK without both. But that’s the problem, people’s nowadays tastes are quite polarized.

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88

This. There surely would be some kind of polishing it for the mainstream and it would loose it soul. I like it because it is weird in the best way. If everyone likedvit wouldn’t that mean it has become normal?
Also even in it’s peak time overseas it was never really mainstream it was always something that mainstream press talked about like they talk about an exotic animal.

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Honstely I’d rather want vk dead than that. Throw in a bit rap or whatever style. But for the love of god don’t take the guitars away XD

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Meh. Will probably help more than hurt. Most people don’t take what that douche says seriously. Whether it is about vk, death metal or any other genre, most think he a complete poser and dumbass.Fantano would most likey be more influential.

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If the scene can innovate and become more subversive and culturally relevant maybe but right now the Asian market is dominated by the Koreans and their dystopian factory music. There would need to be more cross-cultural exchanges and English translations. Like a genuine effort to export it this time and no more region blocking. I think it would be better if Japan formed closer relations with the emerging markets in Asia if they aren’t only focused on domestic consumers.

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Consumers, especially in Asia, don’t WANT subversive. You need to remember what kind of cultural and political climates those markets exist in, which are MUCH more conservative. Japan is the exception in that subcultures are so vibrant and widespread and that a space even exists for this kind of stuff to proliferate. Vkei bands could easily do Asia tours, but there’s no demand.

If anything, the markets in the west are much more likely targets, but distance makes that much more difficult, which is why vkei is rather isolated still. Tours and promotions in Europe or the Americas aren’t likely to pull in enough profit to offset the costs unless they get a good sponsorship deal.

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93

Oh that’s a perfect describtion of k-pop. Can I borrow it?

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94

I thought that Jrock/visual kei died out after 2012 or so. We stopped doing live concerts and promotions in Europe with J-bands at that time, it was before social media was really such a big part of peoples life and kpop sort of took over the fanbase. There are still hard core fans out there but it will never be the same again as the golden age of Jrock/Vkei export of 2000-2010.
I could be totally wrong since i haven’t kept up with new releases, bands or fans.
If we made a show in Europe, germany or france usually, we would have to bring one of the big ones like Diru or Gazette. The fans would dust of their skirts and come out I think, but for new, smaller bands and the scene at large I don*t think we have the same type of hype and interest any more :confused:

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I was so confused for a moment why this comment was in this thread because it perfectly fits the other thread about the possiblity of vk becoming mainstream. But then I saw the comment you answered.

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im a bit confused by this forum to be honest ^^;

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if you want to, we can merge your comment to the other thread instead

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you are the boss

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It is 100% not mainstream in japan. Normal people have no idea what visual kei is. People might know X Japan and that is literally it, people wouldn’t even know diru or the gazette. Not only is visual kei subculture in Japan but it’s an extremely dying and unpopular one at the time so I would say you have 50% less chance of someone you meet knowing about visual kei than you did 10 or even 5 years ago. I would venture to say you would have an easier time finding people who like anime in the US and people who know what visual kei is even in the heart of tokyo.

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100

I remember telling my new Japanese friends at uni about my fave band, and they were surprised they were even within Japan lmfaooo

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101

I think there is an small push for an Visual Kei renaissance happening by many legacy acts. The Japanese Visual Metal shows, Yoshiki bringing some smaller vk people to national prime time tv, music festivals full of new-ish bands, some shows of newer bands in europe. It will never be big, we lost that train in the early 10’s, but I think there is an chance for an afterlife

After an year full of death of oldtimers, I’m sure everyone that remains is thinking about their legacy, and what comes after.

If Kyo destroy his throat again or Kamijo retires this scene is good as dead.

I don’t think it’s a matter of going mainstream, it’s survival

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