Post your "UNPOPULAR" Japanese music opinions! / aka "HOT TAKES" :P

Japanese Music
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This touches on a thought I had during a recent smoke session. I’m also going to loop in this post, as it got me started on this path.

I agree with you on the first point. No doubt, there definitely have been less bands forming, and even less bands sticking together long enough to get somewhere. But why? One of the simplest answers is that there are simply less people. Band members are aging out and there aren’t as many people in the next generation to replace them. Japan’s had a falling birth rate for quite some time now, and we’re just starting to see the impact in the scene now. Otherwise, I can’t come up with a good reason for why the most exciting thing to happen in the scene in recent years is for old bands to come back.

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My unpopular opinion? It’s gonna get worse. A lot worse. We were also discussing the cyclic nature of the scene on our discord, but most of us in the discussion are of the mind that Japanese music is music and throwing up arbitrary labels to define your taste is always limiting in some fashion, but this time we also brought up the reality that visual kei has spawned scenes of its own. Idol rock and metal is booming; BAND-MAID is like the biggest rock band in Japan at the moment. K-Pop took notes from the aesthetics of visual kei and mixed it with pop, soul, and R&B and became its own juggernaut. And visuals aren’t exclusive to visual kei either, so there are plenty of bands with snazzy looks that sit just outside the scene, taking inspiration but not associating themselves with it. And it goes without saying that we can all agree that visual kei exists, but we are unable to pin down a solid definition of it.

So in short, we’re having our “punk rock moment”, and that more than ever we as international fans need to embrace the rest of Japanese music or risk spiraling into irrelevance, because our discussion ended on the fact that the “trunk” of visual kei has been established, and that it will always be there, but that it’s time for these new scenes to shine. These new scenes are solidly established - maybe even more established than visual kei at the moment - and have crossover/mainstream appeal that visual kei will never have, and for a scene that’s a niche within a niche we need the luxury of people to keep it going. We…don’t have that.

And this is just one aspect. Others can probably conjure up some good ones too.

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Seems like I have to take it upon myself and reverse those trends

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there’s no point in doing niche music anymore. CD sales are dead, thus the smaller boutique labels won’t invest anything hoping that a bunch of high-schoolers and a ghost-writer will bring them easy 10k CD sales per pop.

for a major label, releasing 200k units of tablor shit’s “another fart in the autumn wind (re-recorded by tablor!!!)” means more cash than forming and producing a domestic act that can sell 200k and perform live for at least several years to get band members and the crew paid too.

it’s not an issue with just asian music, Shirley Manson of garbage wrote very extensively that indie music can not sustain anymore in today’s world where there’s zero space and zero funding or promotional opportunity outside of mainstream sound; on top of that, social media killed the magazine culture too, influencers killed the demand for VJs and MTV.

in my opinion we’ve hit the rock bottom, and the scene is stable, just not very exciting. considering VK and it’s limitlessly untransparent money flow, it can bloom again (which, obviously, is what I’m hoping for), it can fold; it won’t get mainstream, because if it didn’t do it in the liberal 2000s/2010s, it sure won’t get more global in today’s culture outside of asian diaspora in the west.

I also wonder how long it will take until VK as itself admits that from a creator’s POV, having a professional manager and professional management agency is better than running everything on one’s own, filling every role by the band members.

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390

I agree with Nekkichi. And also I don’t think that population decline in Japan is really the reason why VK is less popular now because the fall has been happening for a long time (since the late 90s at least).

I have a feeling we gaijins have a very skewed view of how popular VK is (or even was at its height), simply because we are so detached from the japanese scene as most of us haven’t even been in Japan (and those who have probably only went there in the last 10 or 20 years). When Vk first became noticed in the West and hyped up within the context and influence of the western anime and Manga boom it was already retreating into the deep underground in its home country.

My teenage self too believed in the orientalistic and fetishistic myth that Japan was an extremely weird place and culture, chock-full of hot androgynous boys, an acceptance of queerness as the norm and that media not aligned with western tastes (whatever that even means) was everywhere. It took a time of growing up and hearing from people who actually went to Japan to live and work there that it was all a fantasy in my head. Most Japanese people aren’t obsessed with Manga, that’s an Otaku hing (not so dissimilar from hardcore Marvel freaks in the US being not the norm). And VK is extremely irrelevant if not even negatively connoted. Sure, there are aspects in the culture that are very different from mine, but that’s normal for every place on earth.

It didn’t help that western Media also over-emphasized how exotic VK supposedly was and that it was a proof that Japanese society was more queer, creative and “weird”. And that they all acted like it’s the hottest shit in Japan. I remember one TV report by Arte specifically featuring THE PIASS, where the narrator consistently mentioned how VK was equal to Japan’s rock music scene and extremely important. Completely ignoring the fact that it is only a tiny niche of a much larger rock scene there. They also made it look like THE PIASS were packing stadiums and selling as much as big, western stadium rock bands, lol.

In the end VK was never really that bih or hugely influential, at least once it became its own, coherent scene. The scene is highly incestuous, VK bands rarely play with groups outside the VK scene and I feel that has contributed to the creative stillstand of the last 10 or so years. Even if japanese society would suddenly experience a major population growth I doubt VK or even any guitar based music would become more popular. If you look at the youngsters in other countries (than Japan) you will observe similar patterns: Gen Z and older Gen Alpha don’t seem to be quite as invested in rock music as previous generations. They have their own counter-cultural movements that even look very alternative adjacent, but don’t make music associated with alternative (see: Hyperpop. Some Hyperpop musicians even look very Visual Kei or Myspace era Scene/Mall-Emo, but their music is totally different and more influenced by Hip-Hop).

We have to come to terms that we are old people and our “old people music”, aka rock, is declining. Some things are simply tied to a specific era or Zeitgeist - they have times of prosperity and growth until they eventually fall off and disappear completely. There’s a reason why most mainstream people aren’t familiar with modern-day composers of classical music, but everyone knows Mozart, Haydn and other peeps that lived and died 150+ years ago.

Personally I want to stay optimistic, but I have a feeling VK will eventually disappear or become at least even more irrelevant. Its aesthetics have entered the popcultural collective consciousness - plenty of musicians will rip it off but not make music that’s realy associated with it, the same way Hip-Hoppers and Gen Z music stars dress like punks or goths but make no Punk Rock or Gothic Rock/Darkwave music.

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391

it’s this part… the ongoing western pretense that any roadie session band with 3 demo tapes was already up there with GLAY selling out stadiums

Japanese popular culture was weird compared to the west and other asian countries, but it’s the overhyping of the glory days that really gives a lot of unrealistic expectations for new fans.

sure, people who knew how to milk the mainstream angle had a good run and probably retired quite comfortably, but for so many ppl this scene was pretty much a hobby or a quick social elevator to marry someone well off and get lost.

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my question really popped up an interesting convo

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I think it reflects a really interesting question on music as a whole. Outside of the rare few, musicians really aren’t doing great right now.
Anything rock or metal adjacent in particular is struggling to find a place in the mainstream (Outside of already established acts like Metallica - and even they’ve changed their sound to be notably “Safer”)

Visual Kei is a scene that’s most famous for it’s long past days, with the eras many people consider being the “peak” being anywhere from 15 - 30 years old. And especially as music has become more “on the go” the actual artist themself doesn’t always need to put in the work to be… interesting.
Quite frankly some of the best selling artists on the planet are really boring in every way, but because you don’t see them as much as hear them, their appearance and stage character doesn’t matter.

I rarely see the faces of many of the pop super-stars vs hearing their music for example.
I can go onto YouTube music or Spotify and just click and album or curated company playlist with their music, never even seeing an album cover beyond a tiny 60x60 pixel image on my tiny 5.8 inch screen. I can barely recall what Taylor swift - for example - even looks like, and the one photo I’ve seen of a stage outfit she’s had was boring. A shiny sequin leotard. I’ve seen that on 1,000,000 musicians in the pop sphere. And she is one of the most famous pop-stars on the planet, one I know I see photos of daily because I read news, and she’s always somewhere on the news websites as a story or an ad.

Quite frankly, outside of Stan culture which seems to only exist in scenes designed around it, or around the top pop-stars on the planet, music as a whole has become more background noise than a culture. And so any music scene based on being seen first and foremost will suffer for it.

And mind you I am looking at this from an international perspective. I have never been to Japan, and do not have a huge knowledge on Japanese culture, so I’m comparing this to the global trend I’ve seen in music as a whole, particularly with the downfall of Rock and Metal acts from the mainstream.

And this isn’t even touching on the financial side of things, where musicians are paid barely even a fraction of a cent per stream, further discouraging any act that would require money to even play a single show or tour without being either proven profitable or being incredibly cheap to set up.

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394

This is basically what I said, but with more detail. Absolutely spot-on.

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knowing very well how much nostalgic value they have for the older fans and making bank from it

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Look… Spotify sucks and should pay the artists more
(spotify itself seem to make no profit themselves, by the way)
BUUUUUUT
The problem with streaming income, is usually the amount of money, that labels take.
For more info, i link you of to Nik, because he explains it pretty well where the problem is, also some of the comments underneath are interesting

Yeeeees … and nooooo
If we talk about western music, we have in the recent years gotten a slight revival of metal, like its not as mainstream as it was in the early 00s. and i dont think we will ever get back to that.
But we got metal bands or rock bands that did blew up.
Bad Omens, Polyphia, Sleep Token, Lorna Shore…
In the US we had We were young festival (i think most bands on the line up were mainly emo bands), Knocked Loose at Cochella, Sick new world festival (a nu metal festival)
We have big celebrities posting about metal bands they like.
We got rapper covering metal song.

Yes metal is not as huge or mainstream as it was, but its also not doing bad at the moment.
(i spare you of another Nik Nocturnal video to that topic XD)

But thats only the international view

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397

Is this the latest interview? because if it was pre-Mass interview then; “damn the audacity”

also a little bit of a question, which VK bandmen do you think hype and describes their upcoming album the best and end-up deliver? because i remember during the early-Sony era of GazettE that RUKI always belike “This album is going to sound like DIM!” and I was like: “This is Hella DesperatE, Uncle.” Does DEG takes the cake?

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Nah it just came out of my head because they said something similar for Ninth

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At least you would think they put some effort into it.

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Even SID (who imo is kinda popular in Japan) struggles with CD sales

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The box in question:

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I think that’s what happens when bands get too successful. They get too comfortable in luxury and lose inspiration. I want edgy gazette back…but I don’t think it pays the bills.

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Its a worldwide phenomenon. Its like after getting that big hit and earning those big bucks, the inspiration kind of dies off. Its almost funny how its always the same pattern. How many artists dont we all know who once were killing it - who today just keep pushing out generic lame ass stuff? I used to be a big fan of Bruno Mars for example, he surprised the world with his catchy songs and interesting songwriting (and became rich…) like 10 years ago, today hes only releasing generic songs without any real hook. I wonder where the fk the creativty and passion went.
I guess we humans simply work like this, at least in general: we make the most amazing stuff while chasing for success, but once you succeed and the money is there, its over :face_with_diagonal_mouth:

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well, to be honest, gazette are teasing some 𝘦𝘥𝘨𝘦 in their 2024 teaser…

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Possibly unpopular opinion:
I enjoy the work Yoshiatsu does in Fukuro more than Dadaroma. I have a friend who was a Dadaroma bangya, and I can never tell her this.

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I’ve got a litany of deeply unpopular opinions coming up. Even debated posting it because the Internet loves to twist words. But fuck it, we’re out here, we’re doing it.

Let me preface this rant with the statement that visual kei clout chasers need to be called out. I’m so tired of seeing YouTube videos of people reacting to visual kei and it’s just DEVILOOF or DADAROMA or Dir en grey like bands that don’t begin with the letter D don’t exist. In a similar vein, but seemingly unrelated, I tire of the fans who go to one visual kei concert and then think they’re God’s Gift to the scene for catching some no1curr band at an anime convention in Lubbock, Texas. And in equally unrelated distaste, I’m also tired of people who claim they’ve been into visual kei for decades but have the taste of someone who discovered the scene in 2016.

If you’re biography starts with “Hi I’m ~USER~ and I’ve been into visual kei since 1999 my favorite bands are DADAROMA, JILUKA, Nocturnal Bloodlust, DIMLIM, Gravity, and DazzlingBad” stop the :billed_cap:. That list should read more like “X, Malice Mizer, deadman, Kagerou, STELLA MARIA, FANATIC<>CRISIS, cali≠gari, DAS:VASSER, etc.” One of the biggest tells that someone is lying, which is about as obvious as the blurry nonsense backgrounds in AI generated portraits, is the general bands they gravitate towards. You stick with what you’re attached to, and if you really came up in 1999 like I did then you would listen to 00’s bands. You can’t claim to be a fan since the 90’s and simultaneously dislike 90’s visual kei. That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works.

You don’t know who GRASS is? Get off my lawn.

To put it straight, the guard has changed several times over. Tons of people I looked up to, like Kuregu, Gen, Byouto, doe, Aion, etc. don’t lurk here anymore. I don’t see many fans from the 90s chilling who isn’t named @koutetsuhime. If you don’t look familiar to us, then you weren’t around. Plain and simple.

My second unpopular opinion is that being around for two decades isn’t the flex that it seems. I have such a hard time relating to new fans. It seems like people care more about host culture they have to vicariously translate before they can live it out before aesthetics that transcend language barriers. So many visual kei bands that aren’t run of the mill acts that no one cares for because they didn’t erupt out of the questionable scene that is host culture. And I for one can’t understand the fascination with splitting things between “this” and “that” without identifying what “it” is, but “it” is something I’ve apparently missed over the last two decades and I’m just not into it. It’s all visual kei to me. It’s all Japanese music. If you resonate with me, I’m gonna make sure other people hear all about you.

Summary

For example (so I stop speaking in broad yet overly specific hypotheticals) I loved 70.'s work in VANESSA and I gave XANVALA a shot and they bounced off me like a Nerf ball. Technically proficient and great vocals, but it doesn’t resonate with me. Not a single track. And the mastering is wonky as if there’s not enough bass but too much sub-bass.

But when I try to leave these waters, I notice a marked resistance to anything that doesn’t fit “it”. And it’s now that I have to bring out this reference, because it’s so true.

Don’t believe me on point two? Wait five years. Either you live to see it for yourself or you burn outta visual kei and get into American pop music sung in Korean. I remember when “it” was kotekote. I’ve seen “it” change. I’ve seen people wholesale drop visual kei like a wet turd because one band made a musical shift and it ruined their Fantasy Island Jamboree.

And I guess my third unpopular opinion is that most visual kei fans have no idea what they’re talking about when I say music sounds shitty. When you say music sounds shitty, you mean you don’t like one or more aspects of the composition and/or execution. When I say music sounds shitty, I mean that the 4khz range is 3.5dB too low and the treble is loud enough to puncture eardrums while the vocalist somehow sounds like he’s singing while kayaking underwater. If you want a reference to a track that fits the bill, look no further:

And this is after I fixed this botched job. Sounds like it took 2, maybe 3 hours tops to crank this out on their end originally. I spent more time fixing this with @Axius then they did! And this is one of those live distributed releases I feel so pressured to preserve, yet I know I damn well am never gonna listen to again. One of those releases that starts sleuthing efforts, fights, and mysticism in visual kei discords the globe over. This song sounds like refried ass. It. Sounds. Like. Garbage. Okay composition underneath it, but I can’t appreciate the presentation.

And when all you listen to is visual kei, you get normalized to garbage sounding music. If you won’t even step outside the visual kei waters to listen to something else, anything else, I don’t want you being a spokesperson for the scene telling people to listen to NAZARE for the goofy luls. It’s just going to result in stoking this over fixation with host-kei that has gripped the international scene for the last decade and some change.

And I like NAZARE!

And I really have to laugh, because if you sit back and think about it host kei culture is one of those things where the experience can’t be translated. We’ve invented our own individual head canon for how things work, and we gush over the canon that aligns and fight viciously over those that don’t. And it all centers around “it”, and no one can explain what “it” is to me, but the criteria is constantly changing and simultaneously lost in translation.

I hate “it” here.

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They should be reacting to bands starting with “La” instead.

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