I can see this sometimes, but i think that’s kinda the definer of a male vs female gaze; ie was this character come up with with men or women in mind?
Not saying everything has to be only one or three other; it’s like how we can point at a traffic light and talk about how green or blue the go circle is without either answer being wrong
I can absolutely see some PVs w/ a love interest character being written w/ a female gaze in mind - whether as an insert like you say, or as an insert for voices of women around the band, see ペンタゴン’s 夢から覚めた日
But i think what Anon’s referring to might be more exemplified by like say, the female character in Diru’s Raison d’Être, who i don’t think was written into the video for any reason other than the guys getting to see boobs, show themselves off as guys who can show off women’s bodies, and build out that fantasy for guys watching
Dont forget the “OH MY GOD YOUR SEXUALISING SENA AGAIN!!”
“WHY CANT HE JUST EXIST!”
“acutally Sena proununs are they/them don’t misgender Sena!”
“guys stop calling Sena a cross dresser that’s so rude and cross dressing is such an outdated term!”
“uh could Sena just put a piece of cloth over his thighs some of us dont wish to know he’s actively at the gym for those”
“HOW DARE YOU!!”
“YEAH GUYS SENA HAS RIGHTS TOO”
I think i was implying it was a management problem, but stopping myself short of saying so directly bc i don’t really know; can’t say w/ confidence
Also, i was talking about covers and my lack of interest in that way to say - i can see how my attitude is part of the problem as well!
If i see the album with what feels like a lacking cover and don’t look into it, maybe that just keeps it unknown to me, when there’s actually nothing stopping me from saying “let me try it out anyway…”
I figured i’d say that and then make a point of challenging that thought w/ that in mind!
ghhhhhhhh and that week or so someone changed Utada Hikaru’s pronouns and identity on English Wikipedia bc of an interview where she said something like she didn’t fuck w/ all the limitations placed on women and didn’t want that to define her
CORRECTION HER PRONOUNS ARE THEY/THEM HOW DARE YOU MISPRONOUN THAT!! gosh I’m gonna have to make a college essay of twitter ranting now and call you out rain!- some random need to touch grass twitter fan
Don’t forget how hard the LGBTQ+ has faught against gay baiting it’s very horrible just like cross dressing how dare mordern era Japanese 30 plus year old men have the slightest idea of doing it! gosh they need to keep up with the times!- source
random non grass touching twitter or brain rot tiktok person
I guess the frustration from my original post stems from realizing what I’ve been missing. It’s actually nice to see women in a visual style! It’s refreshing, it’s unique, and the sounds and influences are slightly different too.
Right! It is! Good thing we all agree on that In fact I think it’s way past due time for women in visual rock but also yeah, my opinion could be a minority’s since I’m not really in the fan scene so unpopular opinions!
@Rena - just what @rsm_rain said. It’s hard to say (at least to me lol) where one ends and the other begins but in many cases it feels very “okay this is just here for The Straight Men” .
@rsm_rain - they did a 7h live show of songs composed by them ?? damn thats wild. Yeah. Honestly. Fan feuds are very natural, but IMO people can be very annoying about “my fave style > your fave style” . Oshare and kirakira did get the short end of the stick obviously agreed that everything can and should coexist.
I think even if we did somehow have a reach a large amount of vkei artists would go “okay, your still going to buy my merch right?” and Japanese fans would even go “okay, more merch for me!”
The point about VK as a safe space for female/queer fans has come up on vktwt recently as well.
And I’m like…in some aspects…it can be. If you’re removed from the full reality of the in-person scene by an ocean…and you don’t get into pissing contests with other fans.
Sure, there are fewer “Name five songs!” dudebros, especially in 2024 (with perhaps DeG being the exception).
Being perfectly honest…I’d rather name five songs than get into conflicts about who “deserves” to be in the front row, or have people drag you online because someone saw you talking to a band guy after the show, or act like you’re a lesser fan because you aren’t willing to spend thousands on just one band.
Even if you simply boil it down to how the musicians cater to female fans, it is fundamentally an issue of revenue. They’re selling a fantasy, as you said. And I’m not sure how much the n00b foreign fans really get that.
Pointing out the fact that this is a paid parasocial relationship doesn’t mean saying that the guys are bad people for leveraging their image in that way. I’m funding my entire upcoming trip off of dominatrix earnings. It’s really very similar. You just have to be realistic, know what you can afford and try to make the best of your money and time.
Ugh sorry to post again. But lol my last reply was just replying to others so I didn’t want to mess with it.
In the aforementioned “erotic bands” topic (that was the one I believe … ) I talked a little about BT across the years just because I was fascinated by it as I discovered their stuff. If you take something like Sexual XXXXX there’s literally no sexualization of men just a bunch of naked lady pics (aha sexual intercourse rofl) and it’s very obviously for the shock aspect (and maybe straight men in the pre google era lol) . But in some interviews the members talk about how Sakurai was popular because he was pretty - it’s not that they were unaware it just wasn’t a selling point. It seems like at some point they went major + were made aware of the fanbase and all it took for “hair down, androgynous looks, leather clothing, on-stage kissing” was two years. I wonder how that went down, I guess the evident peak was Dress where there’s a lot of parallels between his image and this female model’s and I’m not exactly sure who this is pandering to explicitly (the asexual gaze … A Problem) . Then Sasayaki kinda falls on the self-insert I guess, but the girl is sexualized enough and then whatever you wanna say about Kimi no Vanilla. It’s all… I can see how pretty much all of it post-Sexual XXXXX can be straight female pandering, but I can also see how … not exactly. The ambiguity of “not exactly” is what makes me beg to differ.
Since I was a kpoppie for long enough (while my faves were active, sob) so I can say it’s very different in that sense lol. While say, in a kpop girl/boyband (or jpop or any idol band generally, underground or otherwise) the intent to be attractive is very straightforward, within the realm of vk it’s more of a “it depends? maybe?” I guess. See the aforementioned Dir PV etc. Because yeah, it depends on what bands we’re talking about when we say “vk” to begin with. Westerners are generally just not as used or OK with idol culture, particularly… metalhead Westerners, lol … isn’t this also an old discussion? Anyways, this was just to expand on my point of “not all of it is women pandering” .
Being perfectly honest…I’d rather name five songs than get into conflicts about who “deserves” to be in the front row, or have people drag you online because someone saw you talking to a band guy after the show, or act like you’re a lesser fan because you aren’t willing to spend thousands on just one band.
Ahh, the idol culture. Same shit across places and eras I guess. Like that one time one girl in my kpop fandom had the nerve to say because I was happy about getting to go to the concert “some people are way too happy” lol. Pros and cons to each fan culture …
I think there’s also levels to something like this! Ofc there’s whales, saizen, and some people who are actively campaigning to get in w/ artists personally - but that’s not the only way some of the parasocial-looking aspects of the scene are, imho
When i went to go see Mejibray in Nagoya, i bought a handful of cheki! Not bc i want to fuck Tzk (no offense Tzk) or i’ve got any special interest in the images - but bc there were a bunch of bangya outside doing demachi, and i wanted to play the game of trading cheki w/ them!
I got too many of someone and tried to end up w/ one of everyone in the band; it was fun trying to navigate this in a language i don’t speak with complete strangers.
And now i’ve got a couple of photos, like trading cards, that remind me of a fun day i went out w/ my friends, and i can keep them in a little book w/ other cheki from other shows.
Long-ass personal anecdote to say, i haven’t personally let being a straight guy stop me from enjoying my time passing through the not-directly-music-related parts of the scene!
And ngl, what a refreshing change of pace and environment it was to be in an audience of 90% women around my age instead of yelling kick flipping mosh guys at metal shows
In fact I think it’s way past due time for women in visual rock but also yeah, my opinion could be a minority’s since I’m not really in the fan scene so unpopular opinions!
obviously agreed that everything can and should coexist.