Isnt that kind of hypocrite from them? If you want to “shock”, dont draw a line in not offending the local people/society you belong to, and just do something to draw attention from outsiders. Whats the point of the “shock value” if it will only “shock” outsiders.
I agree if it’s about the depiction of violence or blood (the menhera kei thing), but definitely not literal Nazi imagery. How are Nazi soldier uniforms an “exaggerated version of themselves” exactly?
If you are too afraid of offending locals, then is it shock value?
3 Likes
The comparison between provocating or shocking elements and stage personas was just an example to clarify my thoughts about how different the average teenager and the average adult perceive VK. Young fans often also don’t understand that lots of bandoment playing some kind of role.
Besides, I never wrote that Nazi soldier uniforms an exaggerated version of themselves. Actually, I never wrote anything about uniforms at all.
To quote myself:
I simply listed several possible ways of how the real person and the portrayal we see could be distinguished from one another. Of course there are more than these examples. There are also some musician who are exactly the same in real life as what they show their fans.
1 Like
I mean, then it doesnt have any shock value. If you trully want to shock, you cant put boundaries like, lets dont offend neighbours, but try something that may piss people in the other side of the planet off; the moment those limits are set, they are closer to posers than to real “shock value”.
Like, for example, the Dead to the world tour by MM, was real shock value, with even a jew member of the band following with their “nazi” paraphernalia.
Ok, then we are on the same page!
1 Like
They’re a major point of the discussion about “shock value” in VK nowadays, I’d assume. So that’s why I thought you were also referring to that topic.
1 Like
I think they draw a line at how much they want to shock the japanese audience. Mild shock to japanese fans just happens to be more shocking to western audience. If you think they put on the uniforms because they want to shock oversea fans, you over estimate our influence. The uniforms are also controversial in Japan, just less. And especially inside the scene people are used to it. That’s why they will still be seen as “cute”.
1 Like
I’m thinking more so back to the early 2000s, where it was very rare for fans to have gone to Japan, because the average age was quite low. The difference being that while young fans today don’t know that much, the availability of info has convinced them that they do.
We didn’t have much info available back then, and only some people that did translations. Even then, a lot of our info was a couple years out of date. We understood that we didn’t necessarily understand, and that was okay for the most part.
4 Likes
That’s the same period as I’m thinking of. I hadn’t been to Japan yet at that point, but I guess we had different experiences because a lot of my older friends went frequently, so I definitely knew how the lives and the scene worked (mitsu stories in hushed tones…), I knew furi, knew a lot of the context and history of the scene; and even if my Japanese wasn’t great, it together with the translations and PVs that were available gave a relatively decent idea of what the songs were about (and that my parents definitely would not have approved.) And at that time I think a lot of the fans in my figurative vicinity were in a similar situation, but perhaps the scene at large was not like that.
The difference being that while young fans today don’t know that much, the availability of info has convinced them that they do.
Agreed 100%.
2 Likes
I didnt mean to “just shock oversea fans”, just that it may only has shocking value to overseas fans. As u say, people are used about it in the scene and see it as “cute”… if they really want to shock, they need to try something that is not “cute”, otherwise is just…
Isn’t it interesting how we all concentrate automatically into the shock value if uniform inspired outfits? But to be fair, it’s the most recent case again and it seems to be the one that keeps haunting the scene like a zombie.
Honest question, can you recognize the imperial japanese uniforms? Can anybody here??
Because that’s another issue. Most in here also only know of the Allgemeine SS service uniform, so the black one with the red armband, and that’s the uniform you all think of and refer too for those uniform inspired outfits. The SS uniform is unfortunately one of the most visually recognizable “villain uniforms” in modern history, so it became a shortcut for “forbidden,” “dangerous,” or “extreme.” Add to that the part that uniforms were looking “oh so good” and you get the idea
And that’s why it so often ends up getting used as costume inspiration in my opinion.
Menhera Kei reminds me of those internet corners where people with the same issues end up and are free to talk about their issues. Can go well, but yes can also do the absolute opposite.
Instead of being free to finally talk and thinking “hey talking should help, right”, you suddenly get triggered by the band you listen too and fellow fans start sharing with your their unhealthy coping ideas.
____________
What about outfits inspired by nuns or monks? Would anyone here see it as shocking or a no-go? I am not Christian, but I am not a fan of sexualizing clerics and most of the time those costumes do sexualize them. (And yes, I am aware that there is a historical background for it)
I also haven’t seen a lot of outrage over sexual themes I think 
I still remember how everyone I knew and was into VK went wild when we realized that that Gackts Vanilla was about Sex.
I can only agree on this too.
Also I think fans have been more outspoken nowadays.
Back in the days we knew we can’t change a lot. Nowadays fans have seen that bandomen react to outrages on sites like twitter.
2 Likes
Uff, the intention is to be shocking to japanese society overall. Fans are only shocked to a dehree because they are fans and go their because of it.
Look at some other parts that are shocking to the average japanese person like the onnagata members. The kinky outfits etc. this is also part of the visual shock. This is just not so shocking to us.
Most of vk or metal overall is not shocking if you are into that. But to people outside it is. That’s the entire point.
3 Likes
I remember the first time I heard about, and subsequently tried, Gackt-flavoured candy 
Yeah, all in all really good points. I’m sure there have been sexualised nuns in the scene, if only because it’s an easy Halloween costume to find, and for sure shrine maidens, which are the local equivalent (although as with the military costumes, they aren’t always/often exactly accurate depictions, but more of a sexy/punky/otherwise modified version of it).
1 Like
Actually, one more comment on this, even if it’s skirting on being off topic. The misinformation is absolutely wild these days. There were often rumours, many of them completely unhinged, but they were about the bandomen or the bands or something, not about how the scene works. (again, caveat on this possibly being the part of the fanbase I was part of, not saying this was a universal experience).
I’ve seen a (at least to my standards) hugely popular overseas v系 content creator (who I didn’t know and will not name but looked up after witnessing this) fail to understand how the queue system at a live works, and proceed to be very loudly admonished (by japanese standards, anyways) by the livehouse staff. And do many other things that would’ve completely cost her her credibility. All while posting ~expert gya content~.
When this is the case it’s no wonder there is so much misinfo around all while people think they’re very well informed.
(SO! if any newer fans somehow find their way here, please don’t believe everything you read online. About anything, but v系 in particular.
Having said that, the Gackt candy was, however outlandish-sounding, real. 
)
3 Likes
everyone but me 
I think religious outfits would mostly offend people who are very religious and I don’t think there are that many in the VK Fanbase. And as VK is that niche and don’t get exposure in mainstream media, the broad public would not be aware of that.
I can totally imagine that, for example, a VK band wearing burkas would be offensive to devout muslims but I doubt there is a lot of overlap between them and VK fans.
As in, thinking they can wait there and get in first? Or misunderstanding how queuing works for merch and 2shots?
Not realising that she was supposed to queue to the livehouse (she was standing in the middle of the road with cars trying to pass by), not to mention that her ticket had a number… No idea how that ticket was even bought, some sort of forwarding service I guess.
1 Like
Yeah, standing in the road will get you yelled at, lol. Staff usually want people to at least not block foot or car traffic.
1 Like
For some idiots absolutely it would be. Although Burkas as cultural clothes, they have nothing to do with Islam.
I remember there was a band that used the Azhan, the Islamic call to prayer, as a beginning of their concerts and I can tell you for sure, yes I as a Muslim see it as offensive to use it. If they would have opted to record something similar with fantasy language, then I would shrug my shoulders, but the actual prayer call? Please don’t.
1 Like