It seems pretty much every major VKei act since 2005-2007 ish has been using pitch correction on their live releases. Anyone else bothered by it ? Even the old ones when they released something post 07 it would have pitch correction (Buck Tick). And I find it hard to believe the artists want this since they didn’t use it beforehand. For example Nightmare started using it in 2007 which coincides with them switching labels. The Gazette, Janne Da Arc/ABC, Royz, Kamijo all use it too. And DIV actually regularly used live autotune.
It’s a shame because I avoid studio releases precisely because of the usage of Melodyne and/or autotune but then live performance releases also have it added. It seems the only real chance at seeing the original is to see them in person or to watch streams and archive them for yourself. (This is what I do for Nightmare).
Autotune bothers me because it ends up sounding very … particular and doesn’t work for every release though I have come to expect it from the kirakiraish bands like DIV lol but for major acts’ recording companies to do that as a production thing IDK if I even notice it bc I kinda expect it? Isn’t that standard, like, all over the world perhaps? I can’t say I notice it. It just sounds polished and doesn’t really bother me to be honest …
Im talking about live performances. The singers get pitch corrected afterwards for official releases of those concerts on DVD/BLU-RAY and such. It’s not autotune it’s pitch correction they’re different. Most VKei acts don’t use autotune unless they’re going for a certain effect (unless it’s DIV which used it just because they can). Most times they’ll use a software called Melodyne where they manually correct the pitch and this same software gets used on live performances
Right, thats what I got from what you said. My point was just that I cant REALLY think of any artists that don’t do that to live concert dvds and such. That’s the standard to me - live DVDs from bands signed to big labels not being LIVE-live … It’s live with corrections. Usually. Can’t say I notice it in like BT tbh
But come to think of it some says ago I was watching late 90s Cascade concerts and theyre SO off tune and different from album it’s hard to believe there was any sort of correction. So maybe it really wasn’t the standard up until 1990s. (Though part of me doesn’t believe 1990s Gackt sang as well as MM DVDs, oh well Literally came to this realization just now)
Then again for Nightmare due to Yomi’s Voice issues it’s ALL over the place - sometimes even straight out autotune so not sure if thats a good reference …
At least with Nightmare, I have a bunch of the live DVDs that I’ve watched so much over the years, and I don’t really mind if it’s pitch corrected. I think I just appreciate that I can see the performance in one way or another
Then again for Nightmare due to Yomi’s Voice issues it’s ALL over the place
Not just Yomi. Yasu also has jarring pitch correction in JDA’s Osaka Jo Hall performance and it’s especially noticeable with him since he loves to go for long straight notes that are unnaturally accurate. Ruki from the Gazette also has it applied regularly. Kamijo also gets it heavily as well.
To an extent I agree I mean we have to take what we can get. I say this as a Nightmare fanboy. But I much prefer everything from Tenka Daiboso and prior because of that. And the surviving livestream concerts or Sendai Macana performance from 2015 that didn’t use it.
Livestreams in VKei are generally as authentic as they get. Not applying melodyne for instance. But getting the archives early on is key since some orgs will edit the live stream afterwards for a “digital release”.
@RavanDahlia hard same, don’t get me wrong - it’s just that they couldn’t do anything about that, so it’s just a matter of accepting it as it is. I do prefer autotuned lives than no lives certainly.
@chrisXlr8r yeah, just mentioned those examples because they’re the ones I am most familiar with bc not sure if I have ever watched a JDA or Gazette concert much less in full. But it’s hard to say what you’re refering to - those days they seldom had live DVDs and the one they had the Budoukan one is quite literally my #1 top vk concert DVD ever if not overall so I’ve watched it enough and still can’t tell what is so off about it other than adjustments that every major act does and then again for everything that came after the chords damage it’s a mess, courtesy of Jun “TAKE NO BREAK” Chiba but they have always stated that their lives were better than the albums and I assume they don’t like the corrections, it’s really just an industry standard I believe for better or for worse and vk major acts are still major acts … again even for BT which I also watched … a huge number of concerts recently it’s not too noticeable for me personally but I like studio releases so maybe it’s a personal bias favoring edited content.
only sorta related but my ass couldn’t believe Gackt could actually sing in the 90s if there were few corrections (honestly) so I googled the specifics, apparently they removed some performances from live concert dvds even because he couldn’t sing well enough so. yeah, maybe there wasn’t much editing to salvage anything but maybe they just weren’t sharing the trash and it’s easier to pretend it didn’t exist when no phone recordings are allowed
<the one they had the Budoukan one is quite literally my #1 top vk concert DVD ever if not overall so I’ve watched it enough and still can’t tell what is so off about it other than adjustments that every major act does
If you mean the 06 one that was definitely pitch corrected. It’s very blatant in Baretta in the key switch and on the words “warau darou” at the end of the first chorus. If that’s part of the adjustments you’re referring too then yeah all major vkei acts do that
my ass couldn’t believe Gackt could actually sing in the 90s
Yeah his breath control is very shaky back then. But he was a good singer. That performance of Bel-Air, Gackt was STRUGGLING on the slower parts and is during the key change in the last chorus, he is as far off the key as one can get away with. But at least it’s real. And he is singing pretty well and he adds some grit which works for texture. But that type of thing would be heavily pitch corrected today and you only have to look at Kamijo performing Bel-Air to confirm for yourself. Also pitch corrected and Kamijo also struggles on the key switch and even bails into falsetto. As far as songs being removed because Gackt couldn’t sing well ? Yeah for sure. It was unfortunately common practice and still is today
The thing with Yomi is that yeah he had vocal issues but he couldn’t hide it as much. You can’t pitch correct hoarseness, or nasality. So he was forced to be forthcoming. And Take No Break was explicitly an “easy” project for him to not strain his voice. So even if it is obnoxiously autotuned, it was honest in it’s application. But Yomi has definitely improved. Yomi being unable to sing isn’t really a valid criticism anymore.
I want to have my cake and eat it too. I want them to both use pitch correction but also do it so tastefully and skillfully so they fool me into thinking they are not using it so I can both get something that sounds good but also has rough edges, character and a human element.
Since it never happens I’m bothered by it when it pulls me out of the experience (somewhat often…)
I want them to both use pitch correction but also do it so tastefully and skillfully so they fool me into thinking they are not using it
The only issue with that is that relies on not being knowledgeable about music production at all. Once you’re familiar with it, you’ll start hearing it regardless of how “tasteful” it is. Like a painting will just look like a painting to the average viewer but people who are familiar with painting will recognize the brushing techniques.
So inevitably having your cake and eating it requires blissful ignorance. And we already see people sharing videos saying “wow they did this run so perfect !” And it’s pitch corrected. Take Celine Dion’s “performance” at the Olympics It was a pitch corrected vocal that she lip synced to.
Yeah, that one - 2007 wasn’t it? Blatant in … what? I somehow have a very vague reminiscence of Baretta being a song but not a song in this concert so IDK. Not trying to say it wasn’t pitch corrected at all either, just that it’s not … overdone? But yeah if you want live LIVE I think it’s a thing for major acts generally to not record that lol.
Gosh after saying that I went looking for Gackt’s old performances and it literally just came to me that he Could Sing In fact. Interesting. Never thought about this lol. I just accept the current reality of not knowing who can actually sing and move on a bit …
Right - glad his voice seems to be doing a lot better too, keyword ‘seems’
I thought you meant The Gazette performing in Budokan that’s why I mentioned Baretta. But yeah Nightmare also used a lot of pitch correction in that performance. Not every song but some notable ones include Wasurenakusa and Kyokutou Ranshin Tengoku. And that 2nd song didn’t even need it. Just sounds unnatural since the song is meant to be raw and it’s great until the robotic “Ahhhhh”
Once you learn to hear the melodyne properly it’s near impossible to not notice it whenever used. Something about it will just stick out. If you asked me 3 years ago if that concert used pitch correction I would’ve given a firm no. But now I know that for Nightmare essentially every released performance since 2007 has pitch correction with minor exceptions. The live stream archives (plenty from 2022-2024 have been well preserved) don’t have pitch correction with somewhat an exceotion for the Farewell to Shadows digital release after the stream archive window finished.
Ohh gotcha. I thought there was a song with the same nime by Nightmare for a hot minute lol. Yeah, there are a lot of things like … Yomi looking breathless but not getting the pitch wrong or sounding breathless at the end of the line. And yeah those corrections do happen for every major act IMO. Personally the ones without correction bother me a bit lmao I just came to expect corrections when listening to a recording maybe. But I get your complaint now. Still it’s harder for me to perceive it with BT for instance but it’s more about the repertory being more full of gothic, slower tunes instead of those full of energy maybe.
Literally came to this realization just now)
and then again for everything that came after the chords damage it’s a mess, courtesy of Jun “TAKE NO BREAK” Chiba 