I sometimes hear others talking about foreigners not knowing how the Japanese scene is, but they never elaborate. It always leaves me curious. Is the scene really that different from country to country? I mean, obviously there’s the difference that Japanese fans have a lot more opportunities to see their honmeis, and I’ve heard of women getting jealous over them, but is that it? What am I missing?
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Vk for the most part isn’t very popular in Japan many bands only have an audience of like 1-20 people in attendance at their lives and even the more successful only have a slightly higher number. There are exceptions but few and far between. As to other differences there should be others who could better elaborate than me.
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Basically, you know already that “they get more opportunities to see their honmeis”, but what people overseas might not get it just the sheer scale of what “more opportunities” means.
This isn’t anything like the music scenes in Europe or North America where the typical music fan gets to see their favourite active domestic band once every 1-3 years depending on the size of their city.
I’m talking 4-6 times a month, nearly every month, that a fan could potentially see one band (assuming Tokyo, but some fans will even travel out to Osaka, Sendai, Nagoya, etc).
Now, for a traveller, they could set aside one month to just binge the crap out of shows, and be totally happy.
But for the people who live there, they have all of this potential access, but are limited by things like getting off work on time, monthly discretionary budget, etc. It isn’t a vacation for them, it’s their daily grind. The upside of this is that if your budget is tight one month, there’s literally always next month. Tourists don’t typically get that “next month”.
So what usually ends up happening is that domestic gya typically pick one band that they like the most, works with their schedule the most, etc and builds their discretionary spending around that one band.
So already, you have two different fandom styles here. One that prioritizes one artist/band, and one that casually follows many bands (which most overseas fans do, because if shows are already a rarity, why limit yourself to only one band?)
Also, as a result of this prioritization, domestic fans also develop a “honmei” dynamic in a very different way than overseas fans do. Most overseas fans, it’s a combination of “he’s cute/hot, I like his style, I like his band, his interview answers are cool”. For domestic fans, they often develop this dynamic where they build a rapport with a guy (2shots, personalized cheki messages, seeing him around, on stage interaction, etc) and he becomes their honmei that way.
It’s why a lot of band’s fan communities have bangya that get jealous. Because they want to think that the connection they’ve formed is legitimate, and don’t want to be reminded that he’s doing whatever he’s doing with you with twenty other gya. Whereas an online only fan would have to be delusional to think that this guy honestly has feelings for them.
Also, I’d say that overseas really isn’t even a “scene” in and of itself, because shows happen so infrequently that there isn’t any opportunity to develop any kind of unique customs, infrastructure to promote bands, in-person bonds with bandmen, etc.
It’s really just a fandom that can occasionally afford to bring over bands.
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This has been diffrent when vk was on it popularity hight between 2004 and 2010. We would have regular meet ups in various cities, you could walk into a store that sold vk CDs any day and meet other fans, you always knew a bunch of people at every concerts. Busses where organised to travel to concerts in other cities etc. Good times.
It was a scene. Then K-pop became popular and most people moved to that scene.
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I guess it depends on how one defines a scene. If it reaches the point where the concerts are happening monthly, it could probably qualify as that.
I say fandom, because most of those things strictly involve fans and not the bands themselves.
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I think no one really talks about what it’s like to follow bands around as someone who lives here (well, because most of us have to work the next day and we can’t spend an hour typing up live reports every week)
Following a band around the country is really common because it’s so easy to travel within Japan. Not everyone does it, of course, since it becomes pretty expensive when it’s a weekly thing.
Most people can either follow one band the entire time or follow a core group of bands half-assedly, like I do. I go to vkei lives once a week on average and see a variety of bands. I only travel to a different city a few times a year. People older than me, in their 30s and 40s, tend to have a lot more spending money and can afford to do both.
Not every band does the photo op parasocial stuff. The ones I follow don’t, so there’s no weird competition between gya.
Before I moved to Japan, concerts were like a once a year thing at BEST. Here in tokyo, it’s like going to the movies or eating out at a restaurant. You can do it as many times as you want until you run out of money.
Since it’s a part of our *routine*, it’s not chaotic. We don’t spend all day waiting in line. Most of us know the main features of the livehouses we frequent. Where to find the nearest bathroom, where to kill an hour or two, where the cheaper coin lockers are. Lives usually end at 9pm or earlier since everyone has trains to catch.
This is also why there are so many “rules”. A lot of it is reading the room, but there are some vkei-specific “rules” or “norms”. If you push your way to the front abroad, nothing really happens. Here, people will recognize you and awful behavior can get you banned.
Last point: regulars. Generally every band has their regulars. But just because you follow the same band around doesn’t mean you have to be friends, or even talk to them. many people go alone, lives aren’t really a place to meet new people every time. Like I said earlier, this is a weekly thing. Most of us just want to go in, forget about life for 2 hours, and get out. Maybe say hi to people you already know, but that’s about it.
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I find fandom not very fitting tbh because it’s not like the fans had much of a choice in the frequency of concerts. It’s just logistically and financially not possible for the bands to do oversea shows that often. Even if it’s splitt between bands. The fans surely would want that but you can’t do shows for 50 people on the other side of the world on a regular base.
But sure maybe scene is not the best term for oversea fans as well. So let’s say the oversea fans where more of a subculture around vk, than an acutal music scene?
In the end OP ask what is diffrent and no matter the definition, there are diffrennces between the fans and their customs in Japan and outside of Japan. I think we can agree on that 
[quote=“rukarukaruka, post:6, topic:15412”]
many people go alone, lives aren’t really a place to meet new people every time. Like I said earlier, this is a weekly thing. Most of us just want to go in, forget about life for 2 hours, and get out
[/quote]
That’s an intresting point. I think here (Europe) it was more a thing of community. You wanted to meet others and talk about the bands and stuff. That’s basically what we did at meet ups. It was kinda like this forum but we met in the streets and people would dress for that, bring magazins etc. That’s probably why it was preceived like a subculture. It had it’s customs and rules.
There were surely fans that were purely interested in the music and I know some of them frowned upon the above.
At least that’s how it was for me. This might differs between the North America, Middle and South America and Europe as well. There is not one monolitic oversea scene/subculture/fandom (whatever you want to call it 
).
In the end I talked about the past anyway. Because even with concerts coming back a bit more often…. Whatever we had back then does not seem to come back. Maybe because now those things happen on social media and I am old 
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But I think this was only a thing in big cities or cities that have some kind of connection to the topic and therefore attracted people wth a higher possibility to be interested in VK (e.g. a regular anime convention or a university that offered japanese studies).
I never met anyone who liked VK, I also never saw people in my school or somewhere else in my hometown who looked like they might also like it. I tried to find people online near me (but possibilities to do so were limited back then) and to get friends invested, but without any success at all. And my hometown back then was not that small (I guess around 120.000 residents). The closest city who had some kind of a VK scene was about 60 km away - not that far away, but too far at that time for making friends and attending meetings regularly.
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Apparently it used to be like that in Japan too. But vkei became less popular over the years among young people (like high school age) and there’s less of an irl community now. It moved online. People who met up irl back in the day mostly just stick to their existing groups. People either have their own circle of friends in the scene or don’t.
People can be friendly within the livehouse, but once it’s over we go our separate ways. Even if you make friends at livehouses, the friendship remains band-related. Might be a japanese thing though, they tend to avoid having their different friend groups overlap.
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It’s really hard to tell based on appearances. Funniest encounter was when I was doing clinical trials to earn some side cash. This totally normal looking woman in her twenties, while a row of us are in foot baths, says “Hey, has anyone else heard of this band called Thee Michelle Gun Elephant?”
On 95% of days, there’s no way that I could want to dress up in something fancy if I could avoid it. Especially going to shows, just give me something comfortable.
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I get your point, but I think this is mostly the case for adults.
Back then when VK became “popular”, I was in my late teenage years/early 20s. And I believe most youths at that age dress accordingly to their taste in music/hobbies/whatever. And especially at that time and age young people often made their music taste their whole identity.
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I lived in a village at that time 
100 km from Berlin. Found some people from Berlin online and we would go the meet ups or their places to watch PVs and lives or well go to concerts.
And god, did we make our music taste our whole personality 
you absolutely would have know if you saw us. Mostly because we had laminated pictures of bandoman sticked to our handbags.
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For lots it’s really not obvious.
Few years ago when I was on the train on my way back home there was someone and after a moment of taking a curious look on their hoodie jacket I realized it was Gazette merch. She even got off the train where I did and that was when I approached her asking her about it. She could never had guessed it for me just from looking at me.
I came across someone else this year when I got me a new piercing. While I was waiting next to the parlor someone passed me wearing a Jiluka jacket. Turned out she was working there, doing piercings.
So yeah, it was obvious about these two people but not about me. And out of the people I frequently hung out with back in that mentioned past (I’m living in Berlin, I’ve been part of these regular meetups myself) no one’s easily being recognizable a fan of the scene. Even those who still do listen to the music and do attend shows.
I still have mine. I just barely go by it but that’s mainly because my old back hates me going by anything but backpacks.
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The Visual Kei scene is very different in Japan compared to overseas.
At many Visual Kei lives — especially classic or indie bands — fans do synchronized movements:
headbanging at exact parts
punching the air in rhythm
jumping in patterned timing
certain movements belong to certain songs
To Japanese fans, this is normal.
To foreigners, this can feel surprising or even militaristic.
If you don’t know the patterns, Japanese fans might view you as inexperienced or “foreign.”
There is a senpai–kohai dynamic even among fans:
long-term fans stand closer to the front
newcomers learn from seniors
fan etiquette is strict
certain places at the venue are “known” to belong to certain fans
It’s not written anywhere, but everyone in Japan understands it.
In the West, fans usually stand wherever they want.
A honmei is:
the member you support financially
the one whose cheki (polaroids) you collect
sometimes a pseudo-romantic attachment
And yes — jealousy is a thing:
fans can get mad if another girl gets “too close” to their honmei
seat/spot competition at lives
drama around cheki events
silent rivalry among fans
This barely exists overseas.
In Japan:
bands sell polaroids at almost every show
fans often buy 5, 10, 20 at a time
cheki sales are how many VK bands survive financially
fans treasure cheki like religious artifacts
Overseas:
almost nobody buys cheki
bands often don’t bring cheki machines abroad
fans are used to selfies (which in Japan is NOT allowed)
Even dark/heavy VK bands follow some idol logic:
maintaining mystique
parasocial fan relationship
playing innocent / cute / fan-exclusive persona
Foreign fans usually treat bands like rock musicians.
Japanese fans partly treat them like idols.
Rules about interacting with members
Japan:
no touching
no selfies
no waiting outside backstage
no physical gifts
following a member is literally considered stalking (追っかけ)
Foreign countries:
musicians often hang out after the show
fans take selfies
touching is normal
more casual conversations
To VK bands, this difference can be shocking.
Merch culture is more intense in Japan
Japan:
towels, uchiwas (fans), keychains, photo sets
fans buy everything
supporting the band = buying merch
Foreign countries:
fans buy a shirt
maybe a CD
but not full shrines of merch
Live houses in Japan are tiny
Most VK venues:
150–300 people
very intimate
loud and packed
fans are used to being extremely close to the band
Overseas shows are often in:
bars
larger venues
festivals
mixed audiences with no Visual Kei-specific etiquette
This changes the entire experience.
Japanese fans prioritize “loyalty” over musical taste
Example:
A fan may follow a band through:
member changes
style changes
hiatuses
Overseas fans usually follow the music, not the “relationship.”
Foreigners often enjoy Visual Kei more casually
And that’s not meant negatively.
Foreign fans:
enjoy the music
enjoy fashion
feel freer
have fewer unwritten rules
less internal drama
more mixed-gender crowds
Japanese fans:
follow strict etiquette
have unwritten rules
cultivate deep emotional investment
drama is common
majority female
sometimes treat the band like semi-idols
When people say “foreigners don’t know the real Japanese VK scene,” they mean:
strict etiquette
honmei jealousy
fan hierarchy
synchronized movements
cheki culture
idol-like parasocial dynamic
strict rules around interacting with band members
None of this is obvious unless you’ve attended shows in Japan.
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The best and most thorough explanation, couldn’t have possibly said it better
Not true, 2shots/5shots is a big part of visual kei culture with smaller bands, you can touch them/hug them during it if the member is okay with that. Dedicated fans will buy lots of gifts and even give money. For bigger bands they usually have boxes for gifts.
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When you take 2-shots touching is no problem. I couldn’t react as fast as the guys had their arms around me. A lot of people take photos that involve touching. Nobody wants photos standing akwardly next to each other.
A cheki maschine? So a polaroid camera?
Anyway most of the things mentioned ate true for smaller bands in the small venues. It becomes more similar to the west, the bigger the venue gets. Like a of this does not apply to Budokan. Merch of course does. Japanese merch is just so much more creative. I which western artists would learn from that instead of the CD variant A - E thing 
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What I meant before was the general etiquette at shows, not cheki events.
But you’re right — many bands absolutely allow physical closeness during paid cheki.
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You’re exactly on point, and your experience matches how the actual small-to-mid VK scene works way better than the oversimplified version people often describe online.
Yes — “cheki machine” = Polaroid/Instax camera
Some foreigners think it’s a giant machine like a purikura booth because Japanese say “チェキ機材”, so I sometimes use “cheki machine” for clarity, but you’re totally right.
Nothing fancy, just a Polaroid.
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I will say also that the Western fanbase has been trying to adapt to doing things “the Japanese way”, but with mixed results.
For example, the “leaving gifts in the box”, I’ve noticed that in some shows, they have taken to all trying to give gifts because they’ve heard that “it’s the way they do it in Japan”. But they get to the show, and ask “why is there no gift box?” Because western music crowds pretty much never give gifts.
Then sometimes bands will even tell them please, don’t bring any large gifts. We may have to leave them behind because we can’t take them back with us.
Major difference in Canada, though. When I saw Sick2 this year, I was the only person who brought them anything ($5 worth of Ketchup chips).
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