Post your "UNPOPULAR" Japanese music opinions! / aka "HOT TAKES" :P

There was definitely A point in time where someone somewhere had citations and examples on how this wasn’t the case.

I, being a simple monolingual english speaker, took whoever they were at their word, on account of how much i don’t like calling someone by something they aren’t.

But presented with more information, i can see now how they were the liar!
Or misinformed, or intentional bad actor. Very happy to update my mental model with this new information.

In 2015 if someone from Italy said Turks come from Türkiye, i might say: oh strange, every Turk i know has talked about being from Turkey, and that’s how i see it represented on all these maps!

In my mind i’m thinking: these people tell it to me in this way, or i hear it’s this way, so i imagine i’m just passing on what i’ve heard from who i perceive to have a more on the ground, connected understanding

But lately i hear the state government has requested English spelling of their name to be as such; i think right on, this seems like a trustable first-party source, guess that Italian was right all along!

I’m gonna need you to listen and watch this while I rant. It’s connected.

I fell off MIYAVI a long time ago, shortly before his genre switch into EDM. I’m not too familiar with Dué le quartz, I’m pretty comfortable with MIYAVI’s output from 雅楽-gagaku- to around 7 Samurai Sessions or maybe even Room No. 382 (I only listened once though). This gives you an idea of what I like from his discography and where I’m going with this.

Here’s the first combo opinion: The first part is that I don’t like it when I see guitarists in a music video pantomime the wrong finger positions. I get the same kind of confusion like when I’m watching dubbed kung fu movies or anime and the mouth movements don’t line up with the conversation.

The second part of my opinion is that I don’t like when I see an instrument being used as an accessory. It’s an instrument in a music video - I expect it to do a bit more than hang around the neck! MIYAVI’s got such a beautiful Strat, and we all know he’s got great guitar skills, and moments like 1:19 take me completely out of the music video when he’s hammering away on the frets and the song is a cappella.

I’m assuming that a lot of the “EDM parts” that we hear are actually guitars in disguise. I think this because the breakdown and the solo, while wildly different tonally, has a very guitar character. In fact, for me it is the most traditionally rock part of the song!

I’m gonna make another wild assumption here. MIYAVI is using a ton of gear that we aren’t seeing in the music video. A lot of the magic in music happens in the DAW, but sometimes there are effects that you can’t replicate in software. I wonder if he has a Source Audio C4, Boss SY-1/SY-200, some sort of fuzz before the distortion early in the chain for some bite, and maybe some kind of wah to move the EQ peak around. So he’s still a guitar god, he’s just obsessed with the EDM sound.

For as much as I wanna say that MIYAVI sold out by dropping his guitar focused sound for a more EDM sound, my gut says that’s really not accurate for me. I can’t even say he’s alone in this sound because Black Gene For The Next Scene did this sound first, and they had a big EDM lean too. And they had lots of fans, some from XodiacK and some because they truly enjoyed this.

But comparing BFN to MIYAVI, I can hear how the guitars play more of a role for BFN. For one, Black Gene had a bassist that made his presence known. Five plays through MIYAVI’s single and I totally forgot to even look for the bass, so on play six I really listened hard for it. I don’t hear any real low-end until the aforementioned breakdown, which may have been an intentional choice to give it max impact, but it leaves the rest of the song feeling hollow.

And when I go back to his early output, the bass had such a role in driving some of his rock tracks. Here’s one of my favorite.

This encapsulates the difference between “old” and “new” MIYAVI for me, because what’s the first thing you see in this music video? A Marshall stack next to a flying V! And you can really feel the bass when it hits twenty seconds in.

But let’s move beyond bass and electric guitar. What about acoustic? MIYAVI, if you are reading this, I want you to know that you had a big impression on me with your skills on acoustic. He was completely unmatched in visual kei at that time. He was doing innovative stuff (for the scene back then). No one could touch the vulnerability of Itoshii Hito or the spicy energy of Fuminshou no Nemurihime. Even now, there aren’t a lot of acoustic-focused visual kei projects.

Maybe I’m not looking deeply enough, but I feel like acoustic MIYAVI has been lacking lately. This EDM push has gone on for so long that this is the style I associate with him now. Does anyone here have a recent MIYAVI acoustic track? I’d like to hear what that’s like.

Third unpopular opinion: I think that MIYAVI should leave the EDM energy for his solo endeavors and have THE LAST ROCKSTARS focus on rock and acoustic guitar. It’s in the name. I don’t like how everything he touches has to have this EDM sound infused into it. It’s probably working for him, and it’s definitely a safe and workable sound, but I’m yearning for something different from this man specifically and I’m not sure if I’ll ever get it. Side projects should be an avenue to explore different sounds that wouldn’t fit in with your main act.

I guarantee a lot of visual kei fans would stop making a joke of THE LAST ROCKSTARS if they dropped a mini-album tomorrow with six solid tracks. In my mind, I see three Yoshiki-flavored rock tracks, including an infamous Yoshiki rock ballad. A Hyde track with FAITH-styled energy would go so hard. Sugizo gets a free pass to do whatever. And then I’d love to hear an acoustic song courtesy of MIYAVI. I think that mini-album would sell bananas. In fact, I know that mini-album would sell. That’s low-key what everyone expected.

But we got EDM MIYAVI BIGGIDY BANG energy.

“Mastery” is a bit closer to what I’m envisioning, but I wish the EDM elements like the rising synth and the staccato vocals were not there. THE LAST ROCKSTARS has three guitarists - that instrument should play more of a center role. The song gets so good during the chorus when everything focuses up and it sounds like an actual rock song.

So yeah, long way of saying that I miss a lot of MIYAVI’s guitar-focused music where the guitar sounded like a guitar and not a synthesizer pad. But he’s in a completely different lane now serving a different audience that likes EDM more than rock, and I’m not in that audience anymore.

Off to spin Miyaviuta -Dokusou- one more time. And for those who have never heard -Dokusou-, let me leave you with one last song.

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Came here rolling my eyes feeling kinda “not this shit again” but is this opinion even impopular lol? Isn’t that… Just what everyone around here thinks?

This nailed it and I couldn’t have put it better, glad someone with a guitar background did:

Five plays through MIYAVI’s single and I totally forgot to even look for the bass, so on play six I really listened hard for it. I don’t hear any real low-end until the aforementioned breakdown, which may have been an intentional choice to give it max impact, but it leaves the rest of the song feeling hollow.

There’s a Difference between “guitar driven track with other instruments” and “guitar only making EDM sounds” and yeah I prefer the former too.

It’s one of those opinions that are popular here but unpopular elsewhere. Miyavi’s new core audience likely doesn’t know what visual kei is and don’t care for hard rock music in general.

I listened to XANVALA’s BANQUET recently and 明日… has this idea done really well - guitars chopped up, gated, and filtered like a synth.

As far as something that sounds distinctly modern and mixing electronic and guitars worlds, this one of my favourite ways to hear it done!

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Funnily this last sentence reminded me of another opinion I had for a while:

In some of the threads here it was said that rock music isn’t that popular in mainstream nowadays. Not questioning that. It’s facts. But I think the reason is not that people don’t like rock music. I think algorithyms keep them from finding the kind of rock music (and other genres) they would enjoy.

A lot of people never heard great music (or just music they would enjoy better) because they don’t actively look for it. They pick up what’s on the radio when they drive, what people use for their tiktok videos and what spotify and the like recommend to them.

The other day Spotify had a “summer vibes playlist” and a “music for work playlist” and a “relax playlist” or something like that. Half of the Song in the 3 lists were identical…

Yes, Spotify can recommend you cool stuff based on what you already listen too. But if people only ever search for the most bland pop songs, they will get recommend the stuff that spotify got paid for to push… that’s most of the time music from big labels they think is a safe bet.

I had a discussion at work about how this leads to the taste of people becoming more and more uniform because of this.
It’s probably not so much an issue people here face because we already have found music apart from popular music we enjoy and fet similar stuff recommend. But that’s not the average user, I was told.

Conclusion: Rock music would probably more popular if people would be introduced to it more.

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I could have a whole conversation about this.

Algorithms are an essential part of how I consume music, but it’s not the only one. Word of mouth, this forum, online music communities on Last.fm and Reddit, review sites like Pitchfork and Sputnikmusic, etc. I have many different ways of hearing about artists. I can’t rely on algorithms because they’re…not very good.

Don’t take my word for it though. They do have the potential to turn you onto a good artist once in a while. But more often than not they just repeat your play history to you and I can find a lot of people talking about this online.

https://www.reddit.com/r/spotify/comments/s61vgb/how_to_unfuck_the_recommendation_algorithm/

https://www.reddit.com/r/TIdaL/comments/ucg9g1/quality_awesome_new_music_algorithm_is_really_bad/

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8284099

These are complaints across Spotify, Tidal, and Apple Music. Funny how I search for “last.fm recommendations are bad” and I don’t get any hits. I get exactly one complaint about Pandora being a repetitive service, although I’m not sure who uses it anymore. Algorithms will never be perfect, but I bring those two up because they’re from an era before they become aggressively safe.

I even see it when I’m constructing playlists on the JRO Spotify account. The staff’s combined taste is reflected all over, but all it recommends is visual kei. I like visual kei but you would think with six people using it that it would have a bit more variety. But it doesn’t. And what does that say about the algorithm?


A slice of the JRO Staff Playlist


The Recommended Right Underneath

I think people who rely on algorithms as their primary way of consuming music are being done a massive disservice. I don’t think they’re consuming anything at more than a surface level. We’re all familiar with music that doesn’t exist on streaming services as a normal thing, but a lot of my friends can’t even imagine following an artist that’s not on Spotify. That’s one of the consequences of algorithms becoming king :expressionless:

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Everyone has talked about this enough before, but: yes, maybe people shouldn’t have hated on mainstream 00s rock bands so much if they didn’t want rock to become uncool and unpopular. By people obviously I mean people who claim to like rock but actually like metal and screamo only. Yes, obviously less exposure to rock music and rock becoming this “boring boomer thing” made gen Z very anti-rock - but you know what? Gen alpha (let’s say, late gen z too) seems to be a lot more aware of rock and even vk (it’s surprising to me how many 18yos on reddit Know who’s Kamijo - guess why he’s moved now - Kaya or Mana or whoever else) and that’s because they hav word-of-mouth ways of discovering songs again (tiktok) as we did (rotations, smuggling of album rips, amvs and 30 min transfers on icq) and thats. neat :slight_smile: A side-effect of the “post-streaming/insatisfied with streaming, piracy returns” era surely. They’re being introduced to it more and they like it. Not that much more because streaming aka modern radio still exists and still isn’t favoring rock because gen zs exist too. But.

As for algorithms I love mine personally. I had Deezer premium for years and now I don’t bc lol seldom go outside anymore so no reason to keep a premium streaming service (and honestly my tastes became a lot more uniform and just nostalgia vibes due to only using youtube for free) but their algorithm was very “you like vk huh, now listen to a chinese rapper” which makes a lot of people unsatisfied apparently. They want the algorithm to just feed them with more and more of what they supposedly like aka their comfort zone. It’s not different from how things were - tune into rock radio if you wanna listen to rock in short. But I found myself giving a lot of second chances to mainstream (not mainstream-mainstream - I am talking about how I like MUCC ever since I was recommended Karma here) artists whomm I thought I did not vibe with and would not give a chance otherwise. So it could be better than radio for sure but very often it chooses not to be because people want just that. At least thats my bet

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I’m going to lose every ounce of respect I may have had in this forum for this. But I really do NOT like Kamijo’s smile. Something about his smile is just so off-putting. It doesn’t look malicious it just looks weird and I actively dislike it. Closest thing I can draw comparison with is like a rolled up slice of ham (btw ham is the worst excuse for food in existence but that’s not jrock related) and it’s just kinda gross to the point I have to look away from his face in performances. He’s the only one I’ve seen with this issue

this is such a very specific rant but so funny to me. he always looks a bit deranged. it definitely is off-putting lol

omg help. this is such a specific vibe but the analogy is absolutely sending me, 10/10

The new Joker look was on point, then?

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I feel like pissing people off today.

The more I listen to KIZU, the more I arrive at this understanding that they do not sound like their peers. If you swap out Lime with a less enthusiastic vocalist, you would get something resembling 2010’s indie rock.

There’s a very cruel irony in KIZU selling out stadiums and becoming one of the hottest visual kei acts of the last decade rocking the jangly, indie rock sound that was summarily rejected from MH. If you’re new and lacking context, @CAT5 and I made several endeavors to spread awareness to bands with similar sounds several years ago. See The Japanese Indie Thread or CatfooD Vol. 1 or Project Mixtape for some places to look. At one point we even had a 23 page topic devoted to these obscure artists and releases by them, although I cannot seem to find it now.

One of the points I want to make is that KIZU is the recipient of impeccable timing. This sound would not have made sufficient waves as early back as 2012. I know this for two reasons:

  1. We tried - to almost an annoying degree - to spread this kind of sound and it was loudly shut down. People were saying that we were forcing it. And perhaps we were…but that’s because we saw the potential! You wanna know what people in 2012 were really listening to? I’ll give you one.

Don’t get me wrong, this song is okay. But when every third band forming sounds like this, and that’s what dominates the majority of the conversation, it’s very easy to get the idea that that is all that visual kei is. And there was so much going on in the scene around 2012 that didn’t get the attention it deserved.

  1. This sound did exist in visual kei around that time. Sort of. I’ll get to this later.

I do not think that they would have been accepted by the scene in 2012-2014 at all. In fact, I know they wouldn’t, because all those initiatives I linked to didn’t achieve the goals that we set out to. No one liked that sound.

But you cannot deny that a lot of their songs have a very heavy indie rock influence.

十八 (Juuhachi) immediately comes to mind for me but there are others. 日向住吉 (Hyuga Sumiyoshi) 100% sounds like an anime opening theme.

レモンティー (Lemon Tea), while bass-heavy, also oozes similar energy.

But it’s not just KIZU sporting this sound. The Dancho x Kei Hirosue collaboration album last year was straight heat, and also has a similar sound.

@Axius put me on to Develop One’s Faculties, which had a huge indie component to their sound.

@CervaCannibale put me on to another band, GARAKUTA, who also has superb energy and needs to be mentioned in this conversation.

So I sense very similar energy between every song I linked above and the ones I will link below.

Squint your ears a bit and pretend Lime was singing this ARUKARA song. Can you hear a KIZU single from an alternate universe?

For a female spin on things, try Itsue. Lime would slay on this song.

Have to bring up chouchou merged syrups as well.

To compare one of KIZU’s heavier songs to another underrated band, here’s SLOTHREAT.

Am I insane or is anyone else hearing what I’m hearing? These songs are all basically rubbing shoulders with each other.

Now to get back to what I said earlier, the scene has had an offshoot with this sound for quite a while. It just hasn’t reached critical mass until KIZU came along. Here’s a couple of some older songs to sample what I mean:

Earlier in this topic I brought up some opinions about how idol-kei should be considered a new vein of visual kei. This one is sort of similar, except that it’s already been established if you look in the right places, and it’s gotten too big to ignore. So my unpopular opinion / hot take / realization (because let’s be real, I’m extremely late on noticing this) is that indie rock has been coming for visual kei from the other end.

Take that, obstinate fans from eons past! I end up having the last laugh anyway, as KIZU is basically leading the pack as far as new bands go. They were that gateway band I was searching for to bring people into a new, but familiar sound. It also seems the pendulum is swinging back towards less extreme sounds in the scene…and I’m honestly okay with that!

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What a lovely morning~

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You have no idea how conflicted I am listening to KIZU. Because on one hand, they sound excellent and deserve the hype that they got. On the other hand, drop the visuals and I can find several bands that have a similar sound, so is it truly the visuals that pushed KIZU to the top relative to their peers? Or in other words, did Lime do the math and realize that if you take a popular, battle-tested sound into the free-for-all arena that is visual kei, combine it with some visual kei styled harmonics and mannerisms, and excel at it that you would become the biggest fish in the pond?

Because what KIZU is doing is original…for visual kei! Outside of the scene, when you take the entirety of the Japanese music industry into account, they sound like some of their non-visual peers. Where KIZU slots into the scene starts to click into place. I said a lot of their songs can make for good anime themes for a reason. That’s because anime openings in particular are a good gateway opening to a new audience of listeners that come from anime themes. Nightmare walked that road with Death Note with ‘the WORLD’ and I can still mention that opening to my friends today and they remember it (they remember What’s up People much more though…)!

Landing an anime opening would be pretty cool exposure for them and it would give visual kei more legitimacy. アナグラ would go hard. It even has the perfect place for a cut at 1:30 - it’s a match made in heaven!

The conclusion I came to is that this is a new generation of fan that can accept sounds like this. It seems like CAT5 and I were a decade too early :rofl:

But I really wonder if KIZU’s meteoric ascent is in no small part due to our efforts to seed a demand for this sound a while ago, and we’re seeing the results play out in a very unexpected way now.

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Kizu is always causing people conflicts
I love to listen to them and then I look at there merch and go “why the fk am I supporting this band!” and then forget about them until the next release arrives every 3 months like clock work

I think there are multiple things that pushed them to the top of Visual Kei

There promotion for debut was really unique the voice on the mysterious phone number said that basically the band would sing about real experiences fans had death of a friend, self harm, heart ache etc topics it helped fans feel like “oh wow I can relate to these guys”

Pretty quickly after debut they signed to Damage which has Dir En Grey signed on (it was damage or there other record company it’s 5am I’m very sleep deperived) that made a lot of people go “WOW, they gotta be GOOD to be on the same label as the legendary band Dir En Grey” which pushed a lot of people to try them out and become fans

Kyonosuke a very fully grown adult man that at the start of Kizu his vibe was very ‘baby must protect’ (as Tiktok calls it) a very cute face, pastel/artsty clothes and cute expressions Tiktok latched onto him as soon as they found him.

Lime is a 3’0 gothic germlin who tried to erase his pop era off the internet and can forever be memed no matter how many platforms he installs on stages.
Germlin fans come out of there hobbit hole to discover Lime to fan over

They are pretty original I’ve never heard Japanese hiphop (my brain cannot think of there songs I think he rapped once) in a visual kei song before although they only release 12 songs per year each song is pretty unique.
雨男 would go pretty hard as an anime opening I would happily buy terrible anime merch if it had a Kizu song as the opening

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Okay, you guys are spitting straight facts over here😭

love to listen to them and then I look at there merch and go “why the fk am I supporting this band!”

Literally me every time I go to their lives. I look at the booth and then I’m like “wtf is this”

sing about real experiences fans had death of a friend, self harm, heart ache etc topics

Their early songs are so good. You really get the pain and stuff coming through.

did Lime do the math and realize that if you take a popular, battle-tested sound into the free-for-all arena that is visual kei, combine it with some visual kei styled harmonics and mannerisms, and excel at it that you would become the biggest fish in the pond?

Ooh, this is a spicy one. I don’t listen to anything other than visual kei, so for me, Kizu felt super fresh and new. (I agree with all your video examples sounding similar btw.) And of course, being a bangya I’m only drawn to a band if I like the visuals.

Let me add to this (long):

Visual kei is a niche genre. The top dogs of vk are still pretty dang small compared to any big-ish mainstream artist in Japan. What’s the highest a vkei band can go these days? Budokan, probably. The days of vkei being a household name and selling out huge stadiums in the 90s are over.

Playing as a vkei band has its benefits, though. For starters, bangya can be a very dedicated group of fans that will move heaven and earth for you (and even pay you on the side, but that’s another topic for now.) It’s hard to succeed as a mainstream no-makeup rock band because there are so many of them. Yes, it’s hard to do that as a vkei band too, but that’s where the visuals come in. Bangya will try a band out as long as they look good. They go crazy over turd-sounding bands all the time just because their faves look good. But good music will keep them coming, and more of them, too.

Their branding insists on using the words “visual rock” instead of “visual kei”.

The mainstream japanese person has only barely heard of vkei. Tell any rando 30 year old in an office building that you like vkei, and they’ll be like, “vkei? That’s still around?”
Not a good thing you want to be associated with if your goal is to be BIG. They want bangya money, but they don’t want to be boxed in by the vkei label.

They’ve been selling out big venues and seated halls. In my opinion, if Kizu played more lives a year, like Royz or Nightmare numbers, they wouldn’t be anywhere close to selling out all these huge venues. They wouldn’t be getting all this publicity if they did a regular 47 prefecture tour every year.

So I think this is their strategy:

  1. Gain popularity in vkei with good visuals and indie rock sound, which is less common in vkei
  2. artificial scarcity of lives means that more people show up to the ones you actually have
  3. Play in normie festivals
  4. attract mainstream audience with news of sold-out hall shows (and Budokan next year)
  5. keep mainstream audience with familiar indie rock sound AND hook them with shironuri visuals, which normies have never seen before
  6. Slowly move away from vkei niche (notice how their recent releases are basically furi-less? Theres barely any headbanging involved lol)
  7. ???
  8. Mainstream popularity (hopefully)
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I feel like pissing people off today.

I read the whole thing, and you made some good points! I think a good chunk of it is also stage presence as an artist which gets people to look and potentially stay.
If I may be honest, I do feel like the hair style change in 2021-ish actually also kinda helps making Lime stand out more. If you look at him in the Milk MV he just looks like any other VK dude with black hair and shironuri.

Have to bring up chouchou merged syrups as well.

I like this sound, I’ll listen to them more, thank you for sharing!

a very cute face, pastel/artsty clothes and cute expressions

X/Twitter fan artists love Kyo as well lolol
I see a lot of fan art of him float around.

Lime is a 3’0 gothic germlin

Their early songs are so good. You really get the pain and stuff coming through.

I personally like both sides of their song spectrum, but I feel you! Their earlier releases were definitely heavier, but the newer more laid-back songs like Strawberry Blue are really good imo. But I came from music like early Gorillaz before I became a VK fan in 2018 so I might be biased. My only complaint is that it’s easy to skip songs in their discography that don’t fit your current mood. If I feel like listening to Oshimai, Nakaniwa, etc, I’ll skip Kuroi Ame when it comes on lol

The days of vkei being a household name and selling out huge stadiums in the 90s are over.

I remember telling girls at my Japanese uni in 2023 about Babykingdom when they saw my phone case, and they had no idea VK even existed… They were hella surprised at the fact that all 4 members were even natively Japanese (^^;)

artificial scarcity of lives means that more people show up to the ones you actually have

This is a great point

Play in normie festivals

Always helps too, I remember new people finding Jiluka this year bc of this strategy

AND hook them with shironuri visuals

I think that it’s making a general comeback from the 1990’s, which makes sense as trends usually come back every 30 years. I’m not complaining though!

I’m still a new fan of course, so my opinions don’t matter that much. But I see some good points in this discussion and felt like responding to a few! (^^)

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Oh good, I was making some form of sense (dealing with an unwell mother has fried any brain cells of mine)
The rare translated lyrics of any of Kizu songs were quite heavy there 1st song was about suicde 4th was mental illness and possible suicide options, Milk was about greiving and trying to move past it due to the death of an rl friend of his (rip) and there 10th song was about sex and drugs

Both Twitter and sadly Tiktok discovered Kizu and deemed Kyo as “we protect, we stan, we fight for him” and Reiki was “baby energy” due to him being baby faced Yue is the only sexy one
and then there Lime

That germlin can never hide the size of his platforms from me!
Screenshot (12397)
Began at one Reiki ankle grown to 1 Reiki leg was 2 Reiki legs now it’s up to 4 of them he adds more every dvd release trying to finally hide his germlin height
You can never hide sir

Another thing that also made them really popular was that during Covid-19 when Japan restrictions lifted up for live houses to open to litterally 10 people or less at a venue. Many bands either wanted or could not afford to say no to a venue and for a lot of people they didn’t like the idea of venues opening back up only 1 week later it’s closed again why? infections!

Kizu on the other hand they did 1 concert and afterwards Lime said “This is not Kizu, the experience at that concert vs a normal (no restrictions) Kizu concert is way different” so Lime made the choice to say Kizu will not do ANY concerts until live houses are fully opened

Which almost killed there band Kizu annouced a live show and said “if we don’t get 1,000 people (or something like that) then Kizu is over” and of course they got over that amount a lot of people respected them for saying no to venues and staying fully closed until live houses were finally safe

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